Welcome! » Log In » Create A New Profile

HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup

Posted by tech472 
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
November 24, 2015 12:51PM
Our two EMC Data Domain 640 repositories, one which we keep in our offsite CoLo facility and the other in our main office, have maxed out their capacity sooner than we had planned. Along with the DD’s we use Avamar nodes to backup our VMs with Direct Drive Mappings (SQL clusters) and a few physical servers. We also use Veeam to back up the majority of our VM’s - approx 100 servers. Replication occurs between the two DDs, approx 63TB compressed.

We’re currently researching a solution where we combine both DD’s at the CoLo and replicate the data to an offsite provider. The main challenge here is finding a solution that talks to the EMC DD/Avamar nodes. Two options we’re considering are Veritas Net Backup and HP Data Protector. We used Backup Exec prior to our infrastructure going mostly virtual but are not familiar with the Data Protector product. Would be interested to hear reviews from users of either product.
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
November 25, 2015 12:03PM
I've worked on NetBackup since around version 3 (we're now up to 7.6) and I find it works well with various tape libraries as well as various deduplication appliances (we currently have Quantum DXi and EMC Data Domain and are evaluating ExaGrid. The ExaGrid after 3 weeks of POC looks really good to us so we'll likely replace the DXi and DD units with it - it unlike the other appliances has settings to recognize the backup types being done such as NetBackup.)

NetBackup has plugins (at additional cost) that work with many different vendor products (e.g. Oracle RMAN, MS-SQL, MS-Exchange, MS Hyper-V) and of course has agents for standard backups of Systems/Files for UNIX (HP-UX, Solaris [probably AIX but I haven't done that]) , Linux (2.4 kernels through 3.x so far - we do mostly RHEL here), MS-Windows (we've done NT through Windows 2012 but currently don't have anything under Windows 2000).

I last directly used HP's backup solution when it was still called Omniback.

We don't care for EMC as an organization here because of what they did to us with their storage arrays a few years back. Data Domain as an independent company was fine to work with but we'd not likely buy one now because of EMC's ownership. Dell is buying EMC which may improve them overall but then again it is suggested Dell's main interest is in getting VMWare which EMC has the majority ownership of currently.

The DXi we originally got was fine and worked well for our purposes (though tape was always faster and our POC shows the ExaGrid is even faster than tape). However, DXi went to post-ingest deduplication to inline which caused us to miss our backup windows until we finally forced them to revert us to original unit. Were I to look at another DXi I'd require onsite POC before I'd be willing to use their newer units.

Although DXi, Data Domain and ExaGrid all allow for offsite replication units I doubt any of them allow you to replicate to anything other than another of their units. The replication is done from appliance to appliance over the WAN not via the backup software (NetBackup, Data Protector). If I read you correctly you are thinking you can replicate from your two colo data domains to some other unit at another site and I don't think that works.

We haven't done the offsite replication (we duplicate to tape and send the tapes off site) but in ExaGrid's model they say their offsite replication is only of the compressed/deduped backups (not the landing area which is not deduped yet) so it would use less throughput on WAN.

NetBackup makes their own deduplication appliance but my reading about them didn't give me a warm fuzzy so we didn't investigate them when we started looking for replacement for our DXi and Data Domain stuff.

We also heard from a company called Actifio which does offsite replication and isn't just a backup solution. My own take on it was that it would be a great product to allow us not to be tied to vendor specific disk arrays for data replication in house (i.e. you can virtualize storage from multiple arrays). It also allows for offsite replication to another unit and they suggest they do very little over the WAN because of the way they set it up. Were we doing such replication rather than tape duplications I might have pushed harder for that.

If you're doing a DR plan offsite replication of daily backups allowed by the various dedupe units or the Actifio would probably be the best way to plan rather than spinning tapes so long as you put your offsite replication to something in another city via WAN.

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-bounces < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto] On Behalf Of tech472
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 3:52 PM
To: VERITAS-BU < at > MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: [Veritas-bu] HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup

Our two EMC Data Domain 640 repositories, one which we keep in our offsite CoLo facility and the other in our main office, have maxed out their capacity sooner than we had planned. Along with the DD's we use Avamar nodes to backup our VMs with Direct Drive Mappings (SQL clusters) and a few physical servers. We also use Veeam to back up the majority of our VM's - approx 100 servers. Replication occurs between the two DDs, approx 63TB compressed.

We're currently researching a solution where we combine both DD's at the CoLo and replicate the data to an offsite provider. The main challenge here is finding a solution that talks to the EMC DD/Avamar nodes. Two options we're considering are Veritas Net Backup and HP Data Protector. We used Backup Exec prior to our infrastructure going mostly virtual but are not familiar with the Data Protector product. Would be interested to hear reviews from users of either product.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------
|This was sent by hankvare < at > gmail.com via Backup Central.
|Forward SPAM to abuse < at > backupcentral.com.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu
http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
November 27, 2015 07:09PM
Yes you're right, we're researching all options one being to replicate our existing DD units to a cloud provider. We're kind of stuck with them based on their original cost and the fact that they don't talk to other storage units, though purchasing another DD just costs too much. Actifio sounds like an interesting option which I'll read up on. Thanks so much for the info.

Cheers
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
November 29, 2015 06:05AM
You can explore on NetBackup 5230 appliance.
They are pretty good in Backup/Tape and Optimized replication.

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 11:09 AM, tech472 <nbu-forum < at > backupcentral.com ([email]nbu-forum < at > backupcentral.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote]Yes you&#39;re right, we&#39;re researching all options one being to replicate our existing DD units to a cloud provider. We&#39;re kind of stuck with them based on their original cost and the fact that they don&#39;t talk to other storage units, though purchasing another DD just costs too much. Actifio sounds like an interesting option which I&#39;ll read up on. Thanks so much for the info.

Cheers

+----------------------------------------------------------------------
|This was sent by hankvare < at > gmail.com ([email]hankvare < at > gmail.com[/email]) via Backup Central.
|Forward SPAM to abuse < at > backupcentral.com ([email]abuse < at > backupcentral.com[/email]).
+----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist  -  Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu ([email]Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu[/email])
[url=http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu]http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu[/url]

[/quote]

--
*************************
With Warm Regards.
Harpreet Singh Chana
*************************
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
December 06, 2015 06:53AM
What&#39;s the primary purpose of replicating data off-site? DR or long term retention? If it&#39;s latter, then you would try CloudBoost, which is fully integrated with Avamar/NW/NBU today. It allows backup data to be sent to public/private service providers.And next year, DD will have a feature called Cloud Tiering. DD will be able to natively use blob storage on cloud as an extension and based on the defined policies, data will be moved to cloud tier in deduplicated form (no need to rehyradate and dedupe again), regardless of the backup software being used.

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 5:09 AM, tech472 <nbu-forum < at > backupcentral.com ([email]nbu-forum < at > backupcentral.com[/email])> wrote:
[quote]Yes you&#39;re right, we&#39;re researching all options one being to replicate our existing DD units to a cloud provider. We&#39;re kind of stuck with them based on their original cost and the fact that they don&#39;t talk to other storage units, though purchasing another DD just costs too much. Actifio sounds like an interesting option which I&#39;ll read up on. Thanks so much for the info.

Cheers

+----------------------------------------------------------------------
|This was sent by hankvare < at > gmail.com ([email]hankvare < at > gmail.com[/email]) via Backup Central.
|Forward SPAM to abuse < at > backupcentral.com ([email]abuse < at > backupcentral.com[/email]).
+----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist  -  Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu ([email]Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu[/email])
[url=http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu]http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu[/url]

[/quote]
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
December 07, 2015 06:05AM
I’d strongly suggest not making decisions today based on what vendors tell you they “will be able to do” in the future. This is called vaporware because even if the vendor truly has plans to make it so the day they tell you about it, more often than not, it does not happen on the timeline they say and frequently not at all. Planning should be based on what is actually available in vendor products the day you order them rather than future “updates”.

[b]From:[/b] veritas-bu-bounces < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Bahadir Kiziltan
[b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, December 06, 2015 9:52 AM
[b]To:[/b] VERITAS-BU < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[b]Subject:[/b] Re: [Veritas-bu] HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup

What's the primary purpose of replicating data off-site? DR or long term retention? If it's latter, then you would try CloudBoost, which is fully integrated with Avamar/NW/NBU today. It allows backup data to be sent to public/private service providers.
And next year, DD will have a feature called Cloud Tiering. DD will be able to natively use blob storage on cloud as an extension and based on the defined policies, data will be moved to cloud tier in deduplicated form (no need to rehyradate and dedupe again), regardless of the backup software being used.

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 5:09 AM, tech472 <nbu-forum < at > backupcentral.com ([email]nbu-forum < at > backupcentral.com[/email])> wrote:
Yes you're right, we're researching all options one being to replicate our existing DD units to a cloud provider. We're kind of stuck with them based on their original cost and the fact that they don't talk to other storage units, though purchasing another DD just costs too much. Actifio sounds like an interesting option which I'll read up on. Thanks so much for the info.

Cheers

+----------------------------------------------------------------------
|This was sent by hankvare < at > gmail.com ([email]hankvare < at > gmail.com[/email]) via Backup Central.
|Forward SPAM to abuse < at > backupcentral.com ([email]abuse < at > backupcentral.com[/email]).
+----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu ([email]Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu[/email])
[url=http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu]http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu[/url]
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
December 21, 2015 11:52AM
Jeff,

Could you provide specifics re: what you did not like about the NetBackup dedupe appliance?

Thanks again, greatly appreciate your insight on this topic.
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
December 21, 2015 12:28PM
We never tested the NetBackup appliance so my impression of it was based on reading specs and other comments at the time I was looking at it as a possibility.

It may be it does in-line deduplication rather than post-ingest and that soured me on it but I'll admit at this point I don't recall what I saw that made me think it wasn't something we wanted to test.

Also during our investigation we saw Gartner's "magic quadrant" analysis of deduplication vendors and NetBackup wasn't even in the list.

Don't get me wrong - I really like NetBackup as a backup software vendor and the above is only related to their appliance (hardware).

We had major backup window issues with our DXi when they changed it from post-ingest to in-line so I'm not a fan of in-line. Quantum tells us they've resolved most of the issues with the later units but we didn't eval any newer ones. We're still using our DXi 6550 with old "firmware" that does post-ingest deduplication. Quantum says they support it but after 2 years they don't really understand it any more so any call to them invariably suggests the upgrade to newer "firmaware".

We didn't go with Data Domain mainly due to past business issues with EMC (prior to them acquiring DD and prior to Dell's pending acquisition of EMC). Were all things equal I'd probably investigate DD as I really never saw any issues on the ones we had.

As an FYI our eval of the Exagrid solution went quite well and management has opted to go that route to replace the DXi and the Data Domain.

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-bounces < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto] On Behalf Of tech472
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 2:53 PM
To: VERITAS-BU < at > MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: [Veritas-bu] HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup

Jeff,

Could you provide specifics re: what you did not like about the NetBackup dedupe appliance?

Thanks again, greatly appreciate your insight on this topic.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------
|This was sent by hankvare < at > gmail.com via Backup Central.
|Forward SPAM to abuse < at > backupcentral.com.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu
http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
December 22, 2015 06:01AM
One thing to keep in mind with the major difference between a NetBackup appliance and a dedupe storage appliance (Data Domain, DXi, Exagrid, etc.): a NetBackup appliance is a media server that can do dedupe storage but the other appliances require a media server in front of it.

When all is said and done, a NBU appliance and a dedupe appliance end up working about the same. I usually tell customers that the main difference between them boil down to the following:
* The requirement of a separate media server for a dedupe appliance as noted above.
* Through the OST feature set, almost all dedupe appliances support the same capabilities as a NetBackup appliance. The only missing feature from a dedupe appliance is client-side dedupe. And I suspect that Veritas will keep that one in their back pocket always.
* Dedupe appliances can generally scale better than the NBU appliances. A NBU5230 will go to 148 TB and a NBU5330 will scale to 229 TB (but in 114 TB increments) which negates this statement some but the granularity of scaling is better for the other appliances.
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
December 22, 2015 07:19AM
Thanks for that info.

Just to clarify though. If your master is also a media server (as it usually is) you don't have to have a separate media server to talk to the non-NBU appliances.

In our environment we have the master/media and multiple other media servers that all use storage units defined using NFS mounts to the various appliances we've used (DD, DXi and ExaGrid). That is to say we can access each appliance from all media servers rather than requiring a separate media server for each.

We don't use OST here because of the additional NBU license required so it may be different in an OST setup.

-----Original Message-----
From: veritas-bu-bounces < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto] On Behalf Of tsimerson
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 9:02 AM
To: VERITAS-BU < at > MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: [Veritas-bu] HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup

One thing to keep in mind with the major difference between a NetBackup appliance and a dedupe storage appliance (Data Domain, DXi, Exagrid, etc.): a NetBackup appliance is a media server that can do dedupe storage but the other appliances require a media server in front of it.

When all is said and done, a NBU appliance and a dedupe appliance end up working about the same. I usually tell customers that the main difference between them boil down to the following:
* The requirement of a separate media server for a dedupe appliance as noted above.
* Through the OST feature set, almost all dedupe appliances support the same capabilities as a NetBackup appliance. The only missing feature from a dedupe appliance is client-side dedupe. And I suspect that Veritas will keep that one in their back pocket always.
* Dedupe appliances can generally scale better than the NBU appliances. A NBU5230 will go to 148 TB and a NBU5330 will scale to 229 TB (but in 114 TB increments) which negates this statement some but the granularity of scaling is better for the other appliances.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------
|This was sent by tom < at > tjsimerson.org via Backup Central.
|Forward SPAM to abuse < at > backupcentral.com.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
_______________________________________________
Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu < at > mailman.eng.auburn.edu
http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
HP Data Protector vs Veritas Net Backup
December 22, 2015 10:45AM
The only OST difference that I recall is that with OST you don&#39; need the mount.​  As I didn&#39;t have multiple media servers, I cannot attest to the effect of that.​

Cheers, Wayne

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Lightner, Jeff <JLightner < at > dsservices.com ([email]JLightner < at > dsservices.com[/email])> wrote​, in part​
:
[quote]Thanks for that info.

Just to clarify though.  If your master is also a media server (as it usually is) you don&#39;t have to have a separate media server to talk to the non-NBU appliances.

In our environment we have the master/media and multiple other media servers that all use storage units defined using NFS mounts to the various appliances we&#39;ve used (DD, DXi and ExaGrid).  That is to say we can access each appliance from all media servers rather than requiring a separate media server for each.

We don&#39;t use OST here because of the additional NBU license required so it may be different in an OST setup.
​...​

[/quote]
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login