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Critique my new MA build?

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Paul Hutchings
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Critique my new MA build?

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MA. Current proposed spec is:

Dell R710 with a pair of E5645's and 32gb RAM
Pair of 900gb 10k boot drives
Pair of 1tb 7.2k disks for some assorted "stuff" that lives on the box.
600gb SSD for dedupe DB
TL4000 SAS attached twin LTO5 library
MD1220 with 24x1tb SAS spindles.

Pretty much all our backups these days are D2D2T with client side dedupe and with the aux copy rehydrating data as it goes to tape, which I believe is random read intensive hence the spindle count in the MD1220.

Our current server does the job but we didn't do D2D or dedupe when we purchased it so since switching to both of those options everything has been living on a SATA Equallogic - it works but obviously I want to split out the dedupe DB and the spindle count and (I think) not being able to split the array into multiple physical RAID groups for the maglibs probably isn't doing us any favours.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on this config. It seems to fit pretty well to Commvault's building blocks white paper which I assume is a good start.

Thanks,
Paul

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

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Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:31 pm

Philippe Normand
Guest

Critique my new MA build?

Hi Paul,

Your config should be able to handle about 20TB of front-end TB (non-deduped size of a full on your clients) for about 35 days on disk, all depending on the change rate, type of data, etc. As they say, "your mileage may vary".

I would make a few suggestions, based on experience, for 20TB of front-end TB, what works well is:

- 2X 300 or 600GB 10K drives in RAID 1 for boot
- 2X 146GB 15K drives in RAID 1 for swap
- 4X 300GB 15K for the dedupe database, in RAID 0
- Dual channel SAS RAID card with a minimum of 512MB of cache. Make sure to use a separate HBA for the tape drives

You are good with the dual Quad-cores and 32GB of RAM.

As far as the disk targets are concerned, you should go with larger drives (3TB) as when we write the GB size chunk files to disk, this is a sequential process ideal for larger spindles. RAID 6 recommended to protect against the potential failure of 2 disks per set (I have seen that!) and the related rebuild times. By the way, make sure to use small 2-4TB LUNs in the MD. This will give you multiple mount points in your maglib and allow you to do spill&fill and also faster FS check if something happens.

As much as SSDs are cool and can make some loads go tremendously faster (I am a big fan!), in the case of the DDB, it doesn't have the same effect. I asked the question during a training and was told that we did test SSDs but the current IO pattern generated by the database engine is not SSD friendly and you will only marginally benefit from the increased IOPS from the SSD. I am not saying SSDs are bad, just that they are not well suited to host DDBs at this time and that it's probably cheaper to go with 4 15K disks and get similar performance. If you are afraid of using RAID 0, don't forget that you can backup the DDB using a regular file system agent and rebuild the delta between the last DDB backup and the latest jobs on disk.

Also make sure you have sufficient network ports coming in the Media Agent. We recommend 4 Gbit ports or 1 10Gbit cards. Unless your network is all at 10GB or that you can insure that jumbo frame sizes are uniform across the network, 1Gbit may be a better choice and offers more redundancy.

Regards,

Phil

On 2012-01-09, at 3:31 PM, Paul Hutchings wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MA. Current proposed spec is:

Dell R710 with a pair of E5645's and 32gb RAM
Pair of 900gb 10k boot drives
Pair of 1tb 7.2k disks for some assorted "stuff" that lives on the box.
600gb SSD for dedupe DB
TL4000 SAS attached twin LTO5 library
MD1220 with 24x1tb SAS spindles.

Pretty much all our backups these days are D2D2T with client side dedupe and with the aux copy rehydrating data as it goes to tape, which I believe is random read intensive hence the spindle count in the MD1220.

Our current server does the job but we didn't do D2D or dedupe when we purchased it so since switching to both of those options everything has been living on a SATA Equallogic - it works but obviously I want to split out the dedupe DB and the spindle count and (I think) not being able to split the array into multiple physical RAID groups for the maglibs probably isn't doing us any favours.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on this config. It seems to fit pretty well to Commvault's building blocks white paper which I assume is a good start.

Thanks,
Paul

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

***************************Legal Disclaimer***************************
"This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any unauthorized review, use or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received the message in error,
please advise the sender by reply email and delete the message. Thank you."
**********************************************************************

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Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:10 pm

Paul Hutchings
Guest

Critique my new MA build?

Thanks Philippe, appreciate all that info.

The HBA will be on a separate SAS adaptor with the internal disks on a PERC H700 and the MD1220 on a Perc H800 - in some ways this seems overkill but then I just look at what a Data Domain or HP StorOnce costs Smile

Interesting comments on the SSD. Obviously I don't know how the internals of the Commvault DDB work but every benchmark I've seen online, even for totally random small read/write IO suggests an SSD will trounce spinning disk - I'm surprised that doesn't seem to be the case with DDB?

Also the spindle count for the maglib, let's ignore current disk supply issues, I simply assumed that more spindles = more IOPS = good as I was led to believe that when doing auxcopy from deduplicated disk, the operation can be very much random reads so you benefit from having all those spindles working for you?

I wasn't sure how to carve up the 24 spindles in the MD1220, several RAID5 sets, 2x10+2 RAID6 etc.

Capacity wise I figure with the MD1220 we can daisy chain so need more capacity, buy another MD1220 and daisy chain it.

Our current maglib is on a SATA Equallogic PS6000E in RAID6 and whilst it's respectable, the auxcopy is nowhere near as fast as I think it should be.

Thanks again,
Paul
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Philippe Normand [pnormand < at > commvault.com]
Sent: 09 January 2012 9:09 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hi Paul,

Your config should be able to handle about 20TB of front-end TB (non-deduped size of a full on your clients) for about 35 days on disk, all depending on the change rate, type of data, etc. As they say, "your mileage may vary".

I would make a few suggestions, based on experience, for 20TB of front-end TB, what works well is:

- 2X 300 or 600GB 10K drives in RAID 1 for boot
- 2X 146GB 15K drives in RAID 1 for swap
- 4X 300GB 15K for the dedupe database, in RAID 0
- Dual channel SAS RAID card with a minimum of 512MB of cache. Make sure to use a separate HBA for the tape drives

You are good with the dual Quad-cores and 32GB of RAM.

As far as the disk targets are concerned, you should go with larger drives (3TB) as when we write the GB size chunk files to disk, this is a sequential process ideal for large! r spindles. RAID 6 recommended to protect against the potential failure of 2 disks per set (I have seen that!) and the related rebuild times. By the way, make sure to use small 2-4TB LUNs in the MD. This will give you multiple mount points in your maglib and allow you to do spill&fill and also faster FS check if something happens.

As much as SSDs are cool and can make some loads go tremendously faster (I am a big fan!), in the case of the DDB, it doesn't have the same effect. I asked the question during a training and was told that we did test SSDs but the current IO pattern generated by the database engine is not SSD friendly and you will only marginally benefit from the increased IOPS from the SSD. I am not saying SSDs are bad, just that they are not well suited to host DDBs at this time and that it's probably cheaper to go with 4 15K disks and get similar performance. If you are afraid of using RAID 0, don't forget that you can backup t! he DDB using a regular file system agent and rebuild the delta between the last DDB backup and the latest jobs on disk.

Also make sure you have sufficient network ports coming in the Media Agent. We recommend 4 Gbit ports or 1 10Gbit cards. Unless your network is all at 10GB or that you can insure that jumbo frame sizes are uniform across the network, 1Gbit may be a better choice and offers more redundancy.

Regards,

Phil

On 2012-01-09, at 3:31 PM, Paul Hutchings wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MA. Current proposed spec is:

Dell R710 with a pair of E5645's and 32gb RAM
Pair of 900gb 10k boot drives
Pair of 1tb 7.2k disks for some assorted "stuff" that lives on the box.
600gb SSD for dedupe DB
TL4000 SAS attached twin LTO5 library
MD1220 with 24x1tb SAS spindles.

Pretty much all our backups these days are D2D2T with client side dedupe and with the aux copy rehydrating data as it goes to tape, which I believe is random read intensive hence the spindle count in the MD1220.

Our current server does the job but we didn't do D2D or dedupe when we purchased it so since switching to both of those options everything has been living on a SATA Equallogic - it works but obviously I want to split out the dedupe DB and the spindle count and (I think) not being able to split the array into multiple physical RAID groups for the maglibs probably isn't doing us any favours.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on this config. It seems to fit pretty well to Commvault's building blocks white paper which I assume is a good start.

Thanks,
Paul

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

***************************Legal Disclaimer***************************
"This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any unauthorized review, use or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received the message in error,
please advise the sender by reply email and delete the message. Thank you."
**********************************************************************

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Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:36 pm

Paul Hutchings
Guest

Critique my new MA build?

That first line makes no sense, I meant to say that the tape library will be on a separate SAS HBA. Long day Smile

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Paul Hutchings [paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk]
Sent: 09 January 2012 9:36 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Thanks Philippe, appreciate all that info.

The HBA will be on a separate SAS adaptor with the internal disks on a PERC H700 and the MD1220 on a Perc H800 - in some ways this seems overkill but then I just look at what a Data Domain or HP StorOnce costs Smile

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Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Paul Hutchings
Guest

Critique my new MA build?

Hmm.. from the quotes we’ve had, a pair of shelves each with 12x2tb NL SAS is a little more than one shelf of 24x1tb NL SAS.

Obviously this brings things like power and HVAC into the equation, but twice the capacity for a little more the cost of the 2.5” solution is kind of tempting….

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 09 January 2012 21:45
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

That first line makes no sense, I meant to say that the tape library will be on a separate SAS HBA. Long day Smile

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Paul Hutchings [paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk]
Sent: 09 January 2012 9:36 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Thanks Philippe, appreciate all that info.

The HBA will be on a separate SAS adaptor with the internal disks on a PERC H700 and the MD1220 on a Perc H800 - in some ways this seems overkill but then I just look at what a Data Domain or HP StorOnce costs Smile

Interesting comments on the SSD. Obviously I don't know how the internals of the Commvault DDB work but every benchmark I've seen online, even for totally random small read/write IO suggests an SSD will trounce spinning disk - I'm surprised that doesn't seem to be the case with DDB?

Also the spindle count for the maglib, let's ignore current disk supply issues, I simply assumed that more spindles = more IOPS = good as I was led to believe that when doing auxcopy from deduplicated disk, the operation can be very much random reads so you benefit from having all those spindles working for you?

I wasn't sure how to carve up the 24 spindles in the MD1220, several RAID5 sets, 2x10+2 RAID6 etc.

Capacity wise I figure with the MD1220 we can daisy chain so need more capacity, buy another MD1220 and daisy chain it.

Our current maglib is on a SATA Equallogic PS6000E in RAID6 and whilst it's respectable, the auxcopy is nowhere near as fast as I think it should be.

Thanks again,

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Philippe Normand [pnormand < at > commvault.com]
Sent: 09 January 2012 9:09 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: Re: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hi Paul,

Your config should be able to handle about 20TB of front-end TB (non-deduped size of a full on your clients) for about 35 days on disk, all depending on the change rate, type of data, etc. As they say, "your mileage may vary".

I would make a few suggestions, based on experience, for 20TB of front-end TB, what works well is:

- 2X 300 or 600GB 10K drives in RAID 1 for boot

- 2X 146GB 15K drives in RAID 1 for swap

- 4X 300GB 15K for the dedupe database, in RAID 0

- Dual channel SAS RAID card with a minimum of 512MB of cache. Make sure to use a separate HBA for the tape drives

You are good with the dual Quad-cores and 32GB of RAM.

As far as the disk targets are concerned, you should go with larger drives (3TB) as when we write the GB size chunk files to disk, this is a sequential process ideal for large! r spindles. RAID 6 recommended to protect against the potential failure of 2 disks per set (I have seen that!) and the related rebuild times. By the way, make sure to use small 2-4TB LUNs in the MD. This will give you multiple mount points in your maglib and allow you to do spill&fill and also faster FS check if something happens.

As much as SSDs are cool and can make some loads go tremendously faster (I am a big fan!), in the case of the DDB, it doesn't have the same effect. I asked the question during a training and was told that we did test SSDs but the current IO pattern generated by the database engine is not SSD friendly and you will only marginally benefit from the increased IOPS from the SSD. I am not saying SSDs are bad, just that they are not well suited to host DDBs at this time and that it's probably cheaper to go with 4 15K disks and get similar performance. If you are afraid of using RAID 0, don't forget that you can backup t! he DDB using a regular file system agent and rebuild the delta between the last DDB backup and the latest jobs on disk.

Also make sure you have sufficient network ports coming in the Media Agent. We recommend 4 Gbit ports or 1 10Gbit cards. Unless your network is all at 10GB or that you can insure that jumbo frame sizes are uniform across the network, 1Gbit may be a better choice and offers more redundancy.

Regards,

Phil

On 2012-01-09, at 3:31 PM, Paul Hutchings wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MA. Current proposed spec is:

Dell R710 with a pair of E5645's and 32gb RAM

Pair of 900gb 10k boot drives

Pair of 1tb 7.2k disks for some assorted "stuff" that lives on the box.

600gb SSD for dedupe DB

TL4000 SAS attached twin LTO5 library

MD1220 with 24x1tb SAS spindles.

Pretty much all our backups these days are D2D2T with client side dedupe and with the aux copy rehydrating data as it goes to tape, which I believe is random read intensive hence the spindle count in the MD1220.

Our current server does the job but we didn't do D2D or dedupe when we purchased it so since switching to both of those options everything has been living on a SATA Equallogic - it works but obviously I want to split out the dedupe DB and the spindle count and (I think) not being able to split the array into multiple physical RAID groups for the maglibs probably isn't doing us any favours.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on this config. It seems to fit pretty well to Commvault's building blocks white paper which I assume is a good start.

Thanks,

Paul

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570

VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

***************************Legal Disclaimer***************************
"This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any unauthorized review, use or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received the message in error,
please advise the sender by reply email and delete the message. Thank you."
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Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:39 am

Paul Hutchings
Guest

Critique my new MA build?

So other than using diskread.exe or IOMeter to benchmark, what experiences do you all have of different RAID configs for the deduplicated maglib data?

With 2x12 drive cabinets I have quite a few options ranging from 6x3+1 RAID5 sets through to 2x10+2 RAID6 sets.

As before, since we dedupe everything write throughput isn’t a huge concern –rehydrated auxcopy throughput is.

Regardless of the physical disk layout I’m planning on using 1-2tb LUNs (probably 1tb) in the MD1200’s to try and get the best possible distribution of data across all the spindles.

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 10 January 2012 14:39
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hmm.. from the quotes we’ve had, a pair of shelves each with 12x2tb NL SAS is a little more than one shelf of 24x1tb NL SAS.

Obviously this brings things like power and HVAC into the equation, but twice the capacity for a little more the cost of the 2.5” solution is kind of tempting….

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] ([email][mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 09 January 2012 21:45
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

That first line makes no sense, I meant to say that the tape library will be on a separate SAS HBA. Long day Smile

Interesting comments on the SSD. Obviously I don't know how the internals of the Commvault DDB work but every benchmark I've seen online, even for totally random small read/write IO suggests an SSD will trounce spinning disk - I'm surprised that doesn't seem to be the case with DDB?

Also the spindle count for the maglib, let's ignore current disk supply issues, I simply assumed that more spindles = more IOPS = good as I was led to believe that when doing auxcopy from deduplicated disk, the operation can be very much random reads so you benefit from having all those spindles working for you?

I wasn't sure how to carve up the 24 spindles in the MD1220, several RAID5 sets, 2x10+2 RAID6 etc.

Capacity wise I figure with the MD1220 we can daisy chain so need more capacity, buy another MD1220 and daisy chain it.

Our current maglib is on a SATA Equallogic PS6000E in RAID6 and whilst it's respectable, the auxcopy is nowhere near as fast as I think it should be.

Thanks again,

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Philippe Normand [pnormand < at > commvault.com]
Sent: 09 January 2012 9:09 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: Re: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hi Paul,

Your config should be able to handle about 20TB of front-end TB (non-deduped size of a full on your clients) for about 35 days on disk, all depending on the change rate, type of data, etc. As they say, "your mileage may vary".

I would make a few suggestions, based on experience, for 20TB of front-end TB, what works well is:

- 2X 300 or 600GB 10K drives in RAID 1 for boot

- 2X 146GB 15K drives in RAID 1 for swap

- 4X 300GB 15K for the dedupe database, in RAID 0

- Dual channel SAS RAID card with a minimum of 512MB of cache. Make sure to use a separate HBA for the tape drives

You are good with the dual Quad-cores and 32GB of RAM.

As far as the disk targets are concerned, you should go with larger drives (3TB) as when we write the GB size chunk files to disk, this is a sequential process ideal for large! r spindles. RAID 6 recommended to protect against the potential failure of 2 disks per set (I have seen that!) and the related rebuild times. By the way, make sure to use small 2-4TB LUNs in the MD. This will give you multiple mount points in your maglib and allow you to do spill&fill and also faster FS check if something happens.

As much as SSDs are cool and can make some loads go tremendously faster (I am a big fan!), in the case of the DDB, it doesn't have the same effect. I asked the question during a training and was told that we did test SSDs but the current IO pattern generated by the database engine is not SSD friendly and you will only marginally benefit from the increased IOPS from the SSD. I am not saying SSDs are bad, just that they are not well suited to host DDBs at this time and that it's probably cheaper to go with 4 15K disks and get similar performance. If you are afraid of using RAID 0, don't forget that you can backup t! he DDB using a regular file system agent and rebuild the delta between the last DDB backup and the latest jobs on disk.

Also make sure you have sufficient network ports coming in the Media Agent. We recommend 4 Gbit ports or 1 10Gbit cards. Unless your network is all at 10GB or that you can insure that jumbo frame sizes are uniform across the network, 1Gbit may be a better choice and offers more redundancy.

Regards,

Phil

On 2012-01-09, at 3:31 PM, Paul Hutchings wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MA. Current proposed spec is:

Dell R710 with a pair of E5645's and 32gb RAM

Pair of 900gb 10k boot drives

Pair of 1tb 7.2k disks for some assorted "stuff" that lives on the box.

600gb SSD for dedupe DB

TL4000 SAS attached twin LTO5 library

MD1220 with 24x1tb SAS spindles.

Pretty much all our backups these days are D2D2T with client side dedupe and with the aux copy rehydrating data as it goes to tape, which I believe is random read intensive hence the spindle count in the MD1220.

Our current server does the job but we didn't do D2D or dedupe when we purchased it so since switching to both of those options everything has been living on a SATA Equallogic - it works but obviously I want to split out the dedupe DB and the spindle count and (I think) not being able to split the array into multiple physical RAID groups for the maglibs probably isn't doing us any favours.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on this config. It seems to fit pretty well to Commvault's building blocks white paper which I assume is a good start.

Thanks,

Paul

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570

VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

***************************Legal Disclaimer***************************
"This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any unauthorized review, use or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received the message in error,
please advise the sender by reply email and delete the message. Thank you."
**********************************************************************

__._,_.___
Reply to sender ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Critique%20my%20new%20MA%20build%3F[/email]) | Reply to group ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Critique%20my%20new%20MA%20build%3F[/email]) | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
Messages in this topic (6)
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:14 am

Luke Walker
Guest

Critique my new MA build?

Hey Paul,

Normally I just do 2x RAID5 groups per tray with a hot spare and leave it at that when it comes to the MD1xxx series, but I wanted to see what DELL would say since I haven’t touched the MD series since the MD1000 and went digging through DELL’s documentation.

Ran into a white paper on optimizing MD1200’s for HPC deployments – while not the same purpose as you have in mind, it was the sequential and random read/write testing that was of interest - PDF < at > http://i.dell.com/sites/content/business/solutions/power/en/Documents/Md-1200-for-hpc.pdf

Looks like for best of both worlds (Sequential and random read/write), DELL is saying that 2x RAID5 groups of 6 disks per tray would be best fit, however given that doesn’t give you any hot spares, you could cannibalise one disk from a single raid group in each tray for this.

i.e. Per tray, 2x RAID5 groups, 1 being 5 disks, another being 6 disks, leaving 1 hot spare left

What’s also of interest is the testing they’ve done on Chunk sizes – the graphs on Page 8 (Figures 7 and Cool

seem to indicate it may be worth your while to test 256KB .vs. 128KB .vs. 64KB to ensure good read performance for the re-hydrated aux copy.

Cheers,
Luke

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: Sunday, 22 January 2012 10:14 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

So other than using diskread.exe or IOMeter to benchmark, what experiences do you all have of different RAID configs for the deduplicated maglib data?

With 2x12 drive cabinets I have quite a few options ranging from 6x3+1 RAID5 sets through to 2x10+2 RAID6 sets.

As before, since we dedupe everything write throughput isn’t a huge concern –rehydrated auxcopy throughput is.

Regardless of the physical disk layout I’m planning on using 1-2tb LUNs (probably 1tb) in the MD1200’s to try and get the best possible distribution of data across all the spindles.

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 10 January 2012 14:39
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hmm.. from the quotes we’ve had, a pair of shelves each with 12x2tb NL SAS is a little more than one shelf of 24x1tb NL SAS.

Obviously this brings things like power and HVAC into the equation, but twice the capacity for a little more the cost of the 2.5” solution is kind of tempting….

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] ([email][mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 09 January 2012 21:45
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

That first line makes no sense, I meant to say that the tape library will be on a separate SAS HBA. Long day Smile

Interesting comments on the SSD. Obviously I don't know how the internals of the Commvault DDB work but every benchmark I've seen online, even for totally random small read/write IO suggests an SSD will trounce spinning disk - I'm surprised that doesn't seem to be the case with DDB?

Also the spindle count for the maglib, let's ignore current disk supply issues, I simply assumed that more spindles = more IOPS = good as I was led to believe that when doing auxcopy from deduplicated disk, the operation can be very much random reads so you benefit from having all those spindles working for you?

I wasn't sure how to carve up the 24 spindles in the MD1220, several RAID5 sets, 2x10+2 RAID6 etc.

Capacity wise I figure with the MD1220 we can daisy chain so need more capacity, buy another MD1220 and daisy chain it.

Our current maglib is on a SATA Equallogic PS6000E in RAID6 and whilst it's respectable, the auxcopy is nowhere near as fast as I think it should be.

Thanks again,

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Philippe Normand [pnormand < at > commvault.com]
Sent: 09 January 2012 9:09 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: Re: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hi Paul,

Your config should be able to handle about 20TB of front-end TB (non-deduped size of a full on your clients) for about 35 days on disk, all depending on the change rate, type of data, etc. As they say, "your mileage may vary".

I would make a few suggestions, based on experience, for 20TB of front-end TB, what works well is:

- 2X 300 or 600GB 10K drives in RAID 1 for boot

- 2X 146GB 15K drives in RAID 1 for swap

- 4X 300GB 15K for the dedupe database, in RAID 0

- Dual channel SAS RAID card with a minimum of 512MB of cache. Make sure to use a separate HBA for the tape drives

You are good with the dual Quad-cores and 32GB of RAM.

As far as the disk targets are concerned, you should go with larger drives (3TB) as when we write the GB size chunk files to disk, this is a sequential process ideal for large! r spindles. RAID 6 recommended to protect against the potential failure of 2 disks per set (I have seen that!) and the related rebuild times. By the way, make sure to use small 2-4TB LUNs in the MD. This will give you multiple mount points in your maglib and allow you to do spill&fill and also faster FS check if something happens.

As much as SSDs are cool and can make some loads go tremendously faster (I am a big fan!), in the case of the DDB, it doesn't have the same effect. I asked the question during a training and was told that we did test SSDs but the current IO pattern generated by the database engine is not SSD friendly and you will only marginally benefit from the increased IOPS from the SSD. I am not saying SSDs are bad, just that they are not well suited to host DDBs at this time and that it's probably cheaper to go with 4 15K disks and get similar performance. If you are afraid of using RAID 0, don't forget that you can backup t! he DDB using a regular file system agent and rebuild the delta between the last DDB backup and the latest jobs on disk.

Also make sure you have sufficient network ports coming in the Media Agent. We recommend 4 Gbit ports or 1 10Gbit cards. Unless your network is all at 10GB or that you can insure that jumbo frame sizes are uniform across the network, 1Gbit may be a better choice and offers more redundancy.

Regards,

Phil

On 2012-01-09, at 3:31 PM, Paul Hutchings wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MA. Current proposed spec is:

Dell R710 with a pair of E5645's and 32gb RAM

Pair of 900gb 10k boot drives

Pair of 1tb 7.2k disks for some assorted "stuff" that lives on the box.

600gb SSD for dedupe DB

TL4000 SAS attached twin LTO5 library

MD1220 with 24x1tb SAS spindles.

Pretty much all our backups these days are D2D2T with client side dedupe and with the aux copy rehydrating data as it goes to tape, which I believe is random read intensive hence the spindle count in the MD1220.

Our current server does the job but we didn't do D2D or dedupe when we purchased it so since switching to both of those options everything has been living on a SATA Equallogic - it works but obviously I want to split out the dedupe DB and the spindle count and (I think) not being able to split the array into multiple physical RAID groups for the maglibs probably isn't doing us any favours.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on this config. It seems to fit pretty well to Commvault's building blocks white paper which I assume is a good start.

Thanks,

Paul

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570

VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

***************************Legal Disclaimer***************************
"This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any unauthorized review, use or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received the message in error,
please advise the sender by reply email and delete the message. Thank you."
**********************************************************************

__._,_.___
Reply to sender ([email]luke < at > blackduck.nu?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Critique%20my%20new%20MA%20build%3F[/email]) | Reply to group ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Critique%20my%20new%20MA%20build%3F[/email]) | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
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__,_._,___

Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:21 am

Paul Hutchings
Guest

Critique my new MA build?

Thanks for those links Luke. I guess I'm a little confused by some of the graphs/results.

Sequential read seems to scale as you add drives which makes sense until I guess the controller becomes the bottleneck?

Random read though seems to plateau once you hit 12 drives though, and I don't see how that can be if their RAID5 groups are each using 6 disks?

Maybe I'm totally misinterpreting the graphs, wouldn't be surprised Smile

Don't suppose anyone know the rough profile of an auxcopy do they? Is it likely to be 100% random or 70/30% or totally depends on data churn and defrag and so on.

Paul
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Luke Walker [luke < at > blackduck.nu]
Sent: 22 January 2012 11:55 AM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hey Paul,

Normally I just do 2x RAID5 groups per tray with a hot spare and leave it at that when it comes to the MD1xxx series, but I wanted to see what DELL would say since I haven’t touched the MD series since the MD1000 and went digging through DELL’s documentation.

Ran into a white paper on optimizing MD1200’s for HPC deployments – while not the same purpose as you have in mind, it was the sequential and random read/write testing that was of interest - PDF < at > http://i.dell.com/sites/content/business/solutions/power/en/Documents/Md-1200-for-hpc.pdf

Looks like for best of both worlds (Sequential and random read/write), DELL is saying that 2x RAID5 groups of 6 disks per tray would be best fit, however given that doesn’t give you any hot spares, you could cannibalise one disk from a single raid group in each tray for this.

i.e. Per tray, 2x RAID5 groups, 1 being 5 disks, another being 6 disks, leaving 1 hot spare left

What’s also of interest is the testing they’ve done on Chunk sizes – the graphs on Page 8 (Figures 7 and Cool

seem to indicate it may be worth your while to test 256KB .vs. 128KB .vs. 64KB to ensure good read performance for the re-hydrated aux copy.

Cheers,
Luke

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: Sunday, 22 Janu! ary 2012 10:14 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

So other than using diskread.exe or IOMeter to benchmark, what experiences do you all have of different RAID configs for the deduplicated maglib data?

With 2x12 drive cabinets I have quite a few options ranging from 6x3+1 RAID5 sets through to 2x10+2 RAID6 sets.

As before, since we dedup! e everything write throughput isn’t a huge concern –rehydr ated auxcopy throughput is.

Regardless of the physical disk layout I’m planning on using 1-2tb LUNs (probably 1tb) in the MD1200’s to try and get the best possible distribution of data across all the spindles.

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 10 January 2012 14:39
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hmm.. from the quotes we’ve had, a pair of shelves each with 12x2tb NL SAS is a little more than one shelf of 24x1tb NL SAS.

Obviously this brings things like power and HVAC into the equation, but twice the capacity for a little more the cost of the 2.5” solution is kind of tempting….

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogr oups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] ([email][mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 09 January 2012 21:45
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

That first line makes no sense, I meant to say that the tape library will be on a separate SAS HBA. Long day Smile

Interesting comments on the SSD. Obviously I don't know how the internals of the Commvault DDB work but every benchmark I've seen online, even for totally random small read/write IO suggests an SSD will trounce spinning disk - I'm surprised that doesn't seem to be the case with DDB?

Also the spindle count for the maglib, let's ignore current disk supply issues, I simply assumed that more spindles = more IOPS = good as I was led to believe that when doing auxcopy from deduplicated disk, the operation can be very much random reads so you benefit from having all those spindles working for you?

I wasn't sure how to carve up the 24 spindles in the MD1220, several RAID5 sets, 2x10+2 RAID6 etc.

Capacity wise I figure with the MD1220 we can daisy chain so need more capacity, buy another MD1220 and daisy chain it.

Our current maglib is on a SATA Equallogic PS6000E in RAID6 and whilst it's respectable, the auxcopy is nowhere near as fast as I think it should be.

Thanks again,

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Philippe Normand [pnormand < at > commvault.com]
Sent: 09 January 2012 9:09 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: Re: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hi Paul,

Your config should be able to handle about 20TB of front-end TB (non-deduped size of a full on your clients) for about 35 days on disk, all depending on the change rate, type of data, etc. As they say, "your mileage may vary".

I would make a few suggestions, based on experience, for 20TB of front-end TB, what works well is:

- 2X 300 or 600GB 10K drives in RAID 1 for boot

- 2X 146GB 15K drives in RAID 1 for swap
- 4X 300GB 15K for the dedupe database, in RAID 0

- Dual channel SAS RAID card with a minimum of 512MB of cache. Make sure to use a separate HBA for the tape drives

You are good with the dual Quad-cores and 32GB of RAM.

As far as the disk targets are concerned, you should go with larger drives (3TB) as when we write the GB size chunk files to disk, this is a sequential process ideal for large! r spindles. RAID 6 recommended to protect against the potential failure of 2 disks per set (I have seen that!) and the related rebuild times. ! By the way, make sure to use small 2-4TB LUNs in the MD. This will give you multiple mount points in your maglib and allow you to do spill&fill and also faster FS check if something happens.

As much as SSDs are cool and can make some loads go tremendously faster (I am a big fan!), in the case of the DDB, it doesn't have the same effect. I asked the question during a training and was told that we did test SSDs but the current IO pattern generated by the database engine is not SSD friendly and you will only marginally benefit from the increased IOPS from the SSD. I am not saying SSDs are bad, just that they are not well suited to host DDBs at this time and that it's probably cheaper to go with 4 15K disks and get similar performance. If you are afraid of using RAID 0, don't forget that you can backup t! he DDB! using a regular file system agent and rebuild the delta between the l ast DDB backup and the latest jobs on disk.

Also make sure you have sufficient network ports coming in the Media Agent. We recommend 4 Gbit ports or 1 10Gbit cards. Unless your network is all at 10GB or that you can insure that jumbo frame sizes are uniform across the network, 1Gbit may be a better choice and offers more redundancy.

Regards,

Phil

On 2012-01-09, at 3:31 PM, Paul Hutchings wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MA. Current proposed spec is:

Dell R710 with a pair of E5645's and 32gb RAM

Pair of 900gb 10k boot drives

Pair of 1tb 7.2k disks for some assorted "stuff" that lives on the box.

600gb SSD for dedupe DB

TL4000 SAS attached twin LTO5 library

MD1220 with 24x1tb SAS spindles.

Pretty much all our backups these days are D2D2T with client side dedupe and with the aux copy rehydrating data as it goes to tape, which I believe is random read intensive hence the spindle count in the MD1220.

Our current server does the job but we didn't do D2D or dedupe when we purchased it so since switching to both of those options everything has been living on a SATA Equallogic - it works but obviously I want to split out the dedupe DB and the spindle count and (I think) not being able to split the array into multiple physical RAID groups for the maglibs probably isn't doing us any favours.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on this config. It seems to fit pretty well to Commvault's building blocks white paper which I assume is a good start.

Thanks,

Paul

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570

VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The c ontents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

***************************Legal Disclaimer***************************
"This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any unauthorized review, use or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received the message in error,
please advise the sender by reply email! and delete the message. Thank you."
**********************************************************************

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

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Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:30 am

Paul Hutchings
Guest

Critique my new MA build?

Ah this may be a decent read:

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/md12x0-solution-guidebook.pdf
From: Paul Hutchings
Sent: 22 January 2012 3:30 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Thanks for those links Luke. I guess I'm a little confused by some of the graphs/results.

Sequential read seems to scale as you add drives which makes sense until I guess the controller becomes the bottleneck?

Random read though seems to plateau once you hit 12 drives though, and I don't see how that can be if their RAID5 groups are each using 6 disks?

Maybe I'm totally misinterpreting the graphs, wouldn't be surprised Smile

seem to indicate it may be worth your while to test 256KB .vs. 128KB .vs. 64KB to ensure good read performance for the re-hydrated aux copy.

Cheers,
Luke

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: Sunday, 22 Janu! ary 2012 10:14 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

So other than using diskread.exe or IOMeter to benchmark, what experiences do you all have of different RAID configs for the deduplicated maglib data?

With 2x12 drive cabinets I have quite a few options ranging from 6x3+1 RAID5 sets through to 2x10+2 RAID6 sets.

As before, since we dedup! e everything write throughput isn’t a huge concern –rehydr ated auxcopy throughput is.

Regardless of the physical disk layout I’m planning on using 1-2tb LUNs (probably 1tb) in the MD1200’s to try and get the best possible distribution of data across all the spindles.

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 10 January 2012 14:39
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hmm.. from the quotes we’ve had, a pair of shelves each with 12x2tb NL SAS is a little more than one shelf of 24x1tb NL SAS.

Obviously this brings things like power and HVAC into the equation, but twice the capacity for a little more the cost of the 2.5” solution is kind of tempting….

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogr oups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] ([email][mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Paul Hutchings
Sent: 09 January 2012 21:45
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: RE: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

That first line makes no sense, I meant to say that the tape library will be on a separate SAS HBA. Long day Smile

Interesting comments on the SSD. Obviously I don't know how the internals of the Commvault DDB work but every benchmark I've seen online, even for totally random small read/write IO suggests an SSD will trounce spinning disk - I'm surprised that doesn't seem to be the case with DDB?

Also the spindle count for the maglib, let's ignore current disk supply issues, I simply assumed that more spindles = more IOPS = good as I was led to believe that when doing auxcopy from deduplicated disk, the operation can be very much random reads so you benefit from having all those spindles working for you?

I wasn't sure how to carve up the 24 spindles in the MD1220, several RAID5 sets, 2x10+2 RAID6 etc.

Capacity wise I figure with the MD1220 we can daisy chain so need more capacity, buy another MD1220 and daisy chain it.

Our current maglib is on a SATA Equallogic PS6000E in RAID6 and whilst it's respectable, the auxcopy is nowhere near as fast as I think it should be.

Thanks again,

Paul

From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Philippe Normand [pnormand < at > commvault.com]
Sent: 09 January 2012 9:09 PM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: Re: [commvault] Critique my new MA build?

Hi Paul,

Your config should be able to handle about 20TB of front-end TB (non-deduped size of a full on your clients) for about 35 days on disk, all depending on the change rate, type of data, etc. As they say, "your mileage may vary".

I would make a few suggestions, based on experience, for 20TB of front-end TB, what works well is:

- 2X 300 or 600GB 10K drives in RAID 1 for boot

- 2X 146GB 15K drives in RAID 1 for swap
- 4X 300GB 15K for the dedupe database, in RAID 0

- Dual channel SAS RAID card with a minimum of 512MB of cache. Make sure to use a separate HBA for the tape drives

You are good with the dual Quad-cores and 32GB of RAM.

As far as the disk targets are concerned, you should go with larger drives (3TB) as when we write the GB size chunk files to disk, this is a sequential process ideal for large! r spindles. RAID 6 recommended to protect against the potential failure of 2 disks per set (I have seen that!) and the related rebuild times. ! By the way, make sure to use small 2-4TB LUNs in the MD. This will give you multiple mount points in your maglib and allow you to do spill&fill and also faster FS check if something happens.

As much as SSDs are cool and can make some loads go tremendously faster (I am a big fan!), in the case of the DDB, it doesn't have the same effect. I asked the question during a training and was told that we did test SSDs but the current IO pattern generated by the database engine is not SSD friendly and you will only marginally benefit from the increased IOPS from the SSD. I am not saying SSDs are bad, just that they are not well suited to host DDBs at this time and that it's probably cheaper to go with 4 15K disks and get similar performance. If you are afraid of using RAID 0, don't forget that you can backup t! he DDB! using a regular file system agent and rebuild the delta between the l ast DDB backup and the latest jobs on disk.

Also make sure you have sufficient network ports coming in the Media Agent. We recommend 4 Gbit ports or 1 10Gbit cards. Unless your network is all at 10GB or that you can insure that jumbo frame sizes are uniform across the network, 1Gbit may be a better choice and offers more redundancy.

Regards,

Phil

On 2012-01-09, at 3:31 PM, Paul Hutchings wrote:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new MA. Current proposed spec is:

Dell R710 with a pair of E5645's and 32gb RAM

Pair of 900gb 10k boot drives

Pair of 1tb 7.2k disks for some assorted "stuff" that lives on the box.

600gb SSD for dedupe DB

TL4000 SAS attached twin LTO5 library

MD1220 with 24x1tb SAS spindles.

Pretty much all our backups these days are D2D2T with client side dedupe and with the aux copy rehydrating data as it goes to tape, which I believe is random read intensive hence the spindle count in the MD1220.

Our current server does the job but we didn't do D2D or dedupe when we purchased it so since switching to both of those options everything has been living on a SATA Equallogic - it works but obviously I want to split out the dedupe DB and the spindle count and (I think) not being able to split the array into multiple physical RAID groups for the maglibs probably isn't doing us any favours.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on this config. It seems to fit pretty well to Commvault's building blocks white paper which I assume is a good start.

Thanks,

Paul

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570

VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The c ontents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

***************************Legal Disclaimer***************************
"This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the
sole use of the intended recipient. Any unauthorized review, use or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received the message in error,
please advise the sender by reply email! and delete the message. Thank you."
**********************************************************************

MIRA Ltd

Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England

Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84

The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.

__._,_.___
Reply to sender ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Critique%20my%20new%20MA%20build%3F[/email]) | Reply to group ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Critique%20my%20new%20MA%20build%3F[/email]) | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:53 am

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