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Paul Hutchings
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 Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
9.0 SP2.
Not sure this is an issue, I’m just a little surprised and would like to know if it’s normal:
Just started to do d2d backups w/dedupe, so today did the first full for a particular client. It took about 2 hours. Immediately after I thought I’d run another full to see what impact the dedupe has.
What I expected to see was very little data transfer (as presumably it’s just checking the dedupe database) and for the backup to run quickly as I presumed it wouldn’t be backing anything (much) up.
There is next to no network traffic so the dedupe is clearly doing its job, just curious if what I’m seeing is what I should be seeing?
Thanks,
Paul
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
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| Wed May 04, 2011 3:58 am |
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Luke
Guest
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Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Haven't seen any problems (yet?) ... is this file system agent only or a variety of agents all exhibiting this?
Where is signature generation occuring and are you using client side dedupe (on/off) ?
On 4 May 2011 21:58, Paul Hutchings <paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])> wrote:
9.0 SP2.
Not sure this is an issue, I’m just a little surprised and would like to know if it’s normal:
Just started to do d2d backups w/dedupe, so today did the first full for a particular client. It took about 2 hours. Immediately after I thought I’d run another full to see what impact the dedupe has.
What I expected to see was very little data transfer (as presumably it’s just checking the dedupe database) and for the backup to run quickly as I presumed it wouldn’t be backing anything (much) up.
There is next to no network traffic so the dedupe is clearly doing its job, just curious if what I’m seeing is what I should be seeing?
Thanks,
Paul
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
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| Wed May 04, 2011 4:40 am |
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Paul Hutchings
Guest
|
Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
This is, so far, the only Windows iDA that I have backing up to dedupe (the rest are still direct to tape).
Signature generation is on the client, and I have client side dedupe enabled.
Like I said, it’s definitely not resending the actual data.
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Luke
Sent: 04 May 2011 13:41
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Haven't seen any problems (yet?) ... is this file system agent only or a variety of agents all exhibiting this?
Where is signature generation occuring and are you using client side dedupe (on/off) ?
On 4 May 2011 21:58, Paul Hutchings <paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])> wrote:
9.0 SP2.
Not sure this is an issue, I’m just a little surprised and would like to know if it’s normal:
Just started to do d2d backups w/dedupe, so today did the first full for a particular client. It took about 2 hours. Immediately after I thought I’d run another full to see what impact the dedupe has.
What I expected to see was very little data transfer (as presumably it’s just checking the dedupe database) and for the backup to run quickly as I presumed it wouldn’t be backing anything (much) up.
There is next to no network traffic so the dedupe is clearly doing its job, just curious if what I’m seeing is what I should be seeing?
Thanks,
Paul
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
__._,_.___
Reply to sender ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Deduped%20backup%20takes%20as%20long%20as%20a%20normal%20one%3F[/email]) | Reply to group ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Deduped%20backup%20takes%20as%20long%20as%20a%20normal%20one%3F[/email]) | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
Messages in this topic (3)
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| Wed May 04, 2011 4:48 am |
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Philippe Normand
Guest
|
Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> Hi Paul,
Dedup performance is highly dependant on DDB and CPU/memory in your Media Agent. Make sure your DDB is hosted on a minimum of 15k SAS HDDs to make sure it is not the bottleneck. You can test your DDB performance with the SIDB simulator tool in the resource pack.
If you are using client-side dedup, that will reduce LAN traffic but will require CPU on the client for the hashing process. That could also be a bottleneck. Make sure also that your anti-virus is not running at the same time, or exclude temp files.
Phil
From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 08:47 AM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com <commvault < at > yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
This is, so far, the only Windows iDA that I have backing up to dedupe (the rest are still direct to tape).
Signature generation is on the client, and I have client side dedupe enabled.
Like I said, it’s definitely not resending the actual data.
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Luke
Sent: 04 May 2011 13:41
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Haven't seen any problems (yet?) ... is this file system agent only or a variety of agents all exhibiting this?
Where is signature generation occuring and are you using client side dedupe (on/off) ?
On 4 May 2011 21:58, Paul Hutchings <paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])> wrote:
9.0 SP2.
Not sure this is an issue, I’m just a little surprised and would like to know if it’s normal:
Just started to do d2d backups w/dedupe, so today did the first full for a particular client. It took about 2 hours. Immediately after I thought I’d run another full to see what impact the dedupe has.
What I expected to see was very little data transfer (as presumably it’s just checking the dedupe database) an d for the backup to run quickly as I presumed it wouldn’t be backing anything (much) up.
There is next to no network traffic so the dedupe is clearly doing its job, just curious if what I’m seeing is what I should be seeing?
Thanks,
Paul
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
T he contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
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Reply to sender ([email]pnormand < at > commvault.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Deduped%20backup%20takes%20as%20long%20as%20a%20normal%20one%3F[/email]) | Reply to group ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Deduped%20backup%20takes%20as%20long%20as%20a%20normal%20one%3F[/email]) | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
Messages in this topic (4)
Recent Activity: Visit Your Group
Commvault Documentation here:
http://documentation.commvault.com/
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| Wed May 04, 2011 5:24 am |
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Paul Hutchings
Guest
|
Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
The MA has reasonable CPU and “decent” disk (not 15k SAS but monitoring the SAN the DDB is on there’s minimal IOPs/bottlenecks etc.).
Are you saying that you’d typically expect the subsequent full backups to always take significantly less time than the first backup?
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Normand
Sent: 04 May 2011 14:25
To: 'commvault < at > yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Hi Paul,
Dedup performance is highly dependant on DDB and CPU/memory in your Media Agent. Make sure your DDB is hosted on a minimum of 15k SAS HDDs to make sure it is not the bottleneck. You can test your DDB performance with the SIDB simulator tool in the resource pack.
If you are using client-side dedup, that will reduce LAN traffic but will require CPU on the client for the hashing process. That could also be a bottleneck. Make sure also that your anti-virus is not running at the same time, or exclude temp files.
Phil
From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 08:47 AM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com <commvault < at > yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
This is, so far, the only Windows iDA that I have backing up to dedupe (the rest are still direct to tape).
Signature generation is on the client, and I have client side dedupe enabled.
Like I said, it’s definitely not resending the actual data.
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Luke
Sent: 04 May 2011 13:41
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Haven't seen any problems (yet?) ... is this file system agent only or a variety of agents all exhibiting this?
Where is signature generation occuring and are you using client side dedupe (on/off) ?
On 4 May 2011 21:58, Paul Hutchings <paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])> wrote:
9.0 SP2.
Not sure this is an issue, I’m just a little surprised and would like to know if it’s normal:
Just started to do d2d backups w/dedupe, so today did the first full for a particular client. It took about 2 hours. Immediately after I thought I’d run another full to see what impact the dedupe has.
What I expected to see was very little data transfer (as presumably it’s just checking the dedupe database) an d for the backup to run quickly as I presumed it wouldn’t be backing anything (much) up.
There is next to no network traffic so the dedupe is clearly doing its job, just curious if what I’m seeing is what I should be seeing?
Thanks,
Paul
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
T he contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration  GB 100 1464 84
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. Â If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. Â You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
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Reply to sender ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Deduped%20backup%20takes%20as%20long%20as%20a%20normal%20one%3F[/email]) | Reply to group ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Deduped%20backup%20takes%20as%20long%20as%20a%20normal%20one%3F[/email]) | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
Messages in this topic (5)
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| Wed May 04, 2011 5:35 am |
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Luke
Guest
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Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Need a bit more insight ... can you establish a baseline with dedupe off, try disabling dedupe completely (create a test SP to the maglib with no dedupe, then test subclient or backupset and point to your test SP), and run a test backup?
After that you could also try disabling client-side dedupe, so only sig. generation < at > client , run a test backup, measure performance of that against client-side enabled?
I believe what Philippe is trying to say is that client side dedupe will always use a little bit more CPU on-top of what you expect from Signature Generation on Client simply because it's also performing a hash comparison/look-up
On 4 May 2011 23:35, Paul Hutchings <paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])> wrote:
The MA has reasonable CPU and “decent” disk (not 15k SAS but monitoring the SAN the DDB is on there’s minimal IOPs/bottlenecks etc.).
Are you saying that you’d typically expect the subsequent full backups to always take significantly less time than the first backup?
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])] On Behalf Of Philippe Normand
Sent: 04 May 2011 14:25
To: 'commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])'
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Hi Paul,
Dedup performance is highly dependant on DDB and CPU/memory in your Media Agent. Make sure your DDB is hosted on a minimum of 15k SAS HDDs to make sure it is not the bottleneck. You can test your DDB performance with the SIDB simulator tool in the resource pack.
If you are using client-side dedup, that will reduce LAN traffic but will require CPU on the client for the hashing process. That could also be a bottleneck. Make sure also that your anti-virus is not running at the same time, or exclude temp files.
Phil
From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 08:47 AM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) <commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
This is, so far, the only Windows iDA that I have backing up to dedupe (the rest are still direct to tape).
Signature generation is on the client, and I have client side dedupe enabled.
Like I said, it’s definitely not resending the actual data.
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])] On Behalf Of Luke
Sent: 04 May 2011 13:41
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Haven't seen any problems (yet?) ... is this file system agent only or a variety of agents all exhibiting this?
Where is signature generation occuring and are you using client side dedupe (on/off) ?
On 4 May 2011 21:58, Paul Hutchings <paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])> wrote:
9.0 SP2.
Not sure this is an issue, I’m just a little surprised and would like to know if it’s normal:
Just started to do d2d backups w/dedupe, so today did the first full for a particular client. It took about 2 hours. Immediately after I thought I’d run another full to see what impact the dedupe has.
What I expected to see was very little data transfer (as presumably it’s just checking the dedupe database) an d for the backup to run quickly as I presumed it wouldn’t be backing anything (much) up.
There is next to no network traffic so the dedupe is clearly doing its job, just curious if what I’m seeing is what I should be seeing?
Thanks,
Paul
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
T he contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
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| Wed May 04, 2011 5:44 am |
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Paul Hutchings
Guest
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Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
With you now. I can take a look at doing all of that, really I just wanted some basic “Oh yeah it’s usually about the same” or “No it should be 20x faster” type feedback, though I appreciate it will vary.
I’m just running a full backup of the soon to be retired server, over the VPN connection. This is where dedupe really is kicking in because it’s like half way through the backup despite being a VPN link.
Very impressive.
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Luke
Sent: 04 May 2011 14:44
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Need a bit more insight ... can you establish a baseline with dedupe off, try disabling dedupe completely (create a test SP to the maglib with no dedupe, then test subclient or backupset and point to your test SP), and run a test backup?
After that you could also try disabling client-side dedupe, so only sig. generation < at > client , run a test backup, measure performance of that against client-side enabled?
I believe what Philippe is trying to say is that client side dedupe will always use a little bit more CPU on-top of what you expect from Signature Generation on Client simply because it's also performing a hash comparison/look-up
On 4 May 2011 23:35, Paul Hutchings <paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])> wrote:
The MA has reasonable CPU and “decent” disk (not 15k SAS but monitoring the SAN the DDB is on there’s minimal IOPs/bottlenecks etc.).
Are you saying that you’d typically expect the subsequent full backups to always take significantly less time than the first backup?
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])] On Behalf Of Philippe Normand
Sent: 04 May 2011 14:25
To: 'commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])'
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Hi Paul,
Dedup performance is highly dependant on DDB and CPU/memory in your Media Agent. Make sure your DDB is hosted on a minimum of 15k SAS HDDs to make sure it is not the bottleneck. You can test your DDB performance with the SIDB simulator tool in the resource pack.
If you are using client-side dedup, that will reduce LAN traffic but will require CPU on the client for the hashing process. That could also be a bottleneck. Make sure also that your anti-virus is not running at the same time, or exclude temp files.
Phil
From: Paul Hutchings [mailto:paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 08:47 AM
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) <commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])>
Subject: RE: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
This is, so far, the only Windows iDA that I have backing up to dedupe (the rest are still direct to tape).
Signature generation is on the client, and I have client side dedupe enabled.
Like I said, it’s definitely not resending the actual data.
From: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email]) [mailto:commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])] On Behalf Of Luke
Sent: 04 May 2011 13:41
To: commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com[/email])
Subject: Re: [commvault] Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
Haven't seen any problems (yet?) ... is this file system agent only or a variety of agents all exhibiting this?
Where is signature generation occuring and are you using client side dedupe (on/off) ?
On 4 May 2011 21:58, Paul Hutchings <paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk[/email])> wrote:
9.0 SP2.
Not sure this is an issue, I’m just a little surprised and would like to know if it’s normal:
Just started to do d2d backups w/dedupe, so today did the first full for a particular client. It took about 2 hours. Immediately after I thought I’d run another full to see what impact the dedupe has.
What I expected to see was very little data transfer (as presumably it’s just checking the dedupe database) an d for the backup to run quickly as I presumed it wouldn’t be backing anything (much) up.
There is next to no network traffic so the dedupe is clearly doing its job, just curious if what I’m seeing is what I should be seeing?
Thanks,
Paul
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
T he contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
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Reply to sender ([email]paul.hutchings < at > mira.co.uk?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Deduped%20backup%20takes%20as%20long%20as%20a%20normal%20one%3F[/email]) | Reply to group ([email]commvault < at > yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5Bcommvault%5D%20Deduped%20backup%20takes%20as%20long%20as%20a%20normal%20one%3F[/email]) | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
Messages in this topic (7)
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| Wed May 04, 2011 8:23 am |
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dave_rowland@btopenwor...
Guest
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Deduped backup takes as long as a normal one?
What speed are you seeing for the backup, dont forget even with client side dedupe the client server has to read all the data from its local disks to do the hashing. You may be limited by the client OS and the read speed from the clients disks, especially if you have lots of small files.
I assume an incremental would be faster as it is only checking changed files for the hahes etc.
--- In commvault < at > yahoogroups.com ([email]commvault%40yahoogroups.com[/email]), "Paul Hutchings" <paul.hutchings < at > ...> wrote:
9.0 SP2.
Not sure this is an issue, I'm just a little surprised and would like to
know if it's normal:
Just started to do d2d backups w/dedupe, so today did the first full for
a particular client. It took about 2 hours. Immediately after I
thought I'd run another full to see what impact the dedupe has.
What I expected to see was very little data transfer (as presumably it's
just checking the dedupe database) and for the backup to run quickly as
I presumed it wouldn't be backing anything (much) up.
There is next to no network traffic so the dedupe is clearly doing its
job, just curious if what I'm seeing is what I should be seeing?
Thanks,
Paul
--
MIRA Ltd
Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England
Registered in England and Wales No. 402570
VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84
The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited.
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| Thu May 05, 2011 5:55 am |
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