Backup Central

By design we implement schedules to Install Updates on our clients. But
we have always had to manually schedule and apply patches to the
Commserve and MAs to avoid problems with long-running jobs. Prior to v9
this was never an issue. But since sp3a started getting rolled out to
our clients, we cannot back them up. CV support is telling me that there
is an incompatibility between v9sp3 and v9sp3a which causes our jobs to
hang. They are being no more specific, but are saying that we will NOT
be able to back up until we can schedule an upgrade the Commserv to sp3a
or downgrade our clients to sp3. I've now suspended our scheduled client
patches, but I am left w/o functioning clients until we can get a
"change window" approved ... most likely over the weekend.

Why has Commvault introduced such a MAJOR incompatibility between such
minor revisions within a release. I expect more from an "enterprise"
product.

__._,_.___
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__,_._,___

I did the same thing.  I rolled out SP3a to the clients first and then was planning to do the CommServe and Media Agents when my long-running jobs were complete.

CV support said that the rollout schedule should be CommServe, media agent, then clients.  Once I updated the CS and MAs everything worked fine.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 1:02 PM, George Haddad <georgeh < at > msu.edu ([email]georgeh < at > msu.edu[/email])> wrote:
 
By design we implement schedules to Install Updates on our clients. But
we have always had to manually schedule and apply patches to the
Commserve and MAs to avoid problems with long-running jobs. Prior to v9
this was never an issue. But since sp3a started getting rolled out to
our clients, we cannot back them up. CV support is telling me that there
is an incompatibility between v9sp3 and v9sp3a which causes our jobs to
hang. They are being no more specific, but are saying that we will NOT
be able to back up until we can schedule an upgrade the Commserv to sp3a
or downgrade our clients to sp3. I've now suspended our scheduled client
patches, but I am left w/o functioning clients until we can get a
"change window" approved ... most likely over the weekend.

Why has Commvault introduced such a MAJOR incompatibility between such
minor revisions within a release. I expect more from an "enterprise"
product.








__._,_.___
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__,_._,___

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> We've always rolled out in that order for major releases, but those are not pushed in the Automatic Updates, so we can completely control the ordering. I would never have suspected that a relatively minor update (sp3 to sp3a) would cause our clients to be unusable.

Colin Bogan wrote:  
I did the same thing.  I rolled out SP3a to the clients first and then was planning to do the CommServe and Media Agents when my long-running jobs were complete.

CV support said that the rollout schedule should be CommServe, media agent, then clients.  Once I updated the CS and MAs everything worked fine.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 1:02 PM, George Haddad <georgeh < at > msu.edu ([email]georgeh < at > msu.edu[/email])> wrote:
 
By design we implement schedules to Install Updates on our clients. But
we have always had to manually schedule and apply patches to the
Commserve and MAs to avoid problems with long-running jobs. Prior to v9
this was never an issue. But since sp3a started getting rolled out to
our clients, we cannot back them up. CV support is telling me that there
is an incompatibility between v9sp3 and v9sp3a which causes our jobs to
hang. They are being no more specific, but are saying that we will NOT
be able to back up until we can schedule an upgrade the Commserv to sp3a
or downgrade our clients to sp3. I've now suspended our scheduled client
patches, but I am left w/o functioning clients until we can get a
"change window" approved ... most likely over the weekend.

Why has Commvault introduced such a MAJOR incompatibility between such
minor revisions within a release. I expect more from an "enterprise"
product.








__._,_.___
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__,_._,___

Hi there one thing I've always recommended to customers is always upgrade the CommServe and media agents first, most patches are designed to work with the CommServe and MAs being on a higher revision then the clients (some customers even have older versions on the clients).

CommVault go to a bit of trouble to make patches work across the patching cycle but as new features get added to clients with patches this can sometimes change the way clients communicate with the other components, this is why you most likely have issues the CommServe/MA is receiving a command it doesn't recognise which is making in not work

best way is to upgrade CS and MAs first then do clients after these are complete; as schedules open you up to risk (a patch could break something ) it is always better to upgrade manually the CS,MAs and a few test clients first and after these have been tested completely schedule a roll-out to the other clients.

the copytocache utility allows you to 'seed' the update with extra updates that are not yet in the automatic updates to help you rollout to clients

hope this helps
rgds rod

On 13/09/2011 5:18 AM, George Haddad wrote:  
We've always rolled out in that order for major releases, but those are not pushed in the Automatic Updates, so we can completely control the ordering. I would never have suspected that a relatively minor update (sp3 to sp3a) would cause our clients to be unusable.

Colin Bogan wrote:  
I did the same thing.  I rolled out SP3a to the clients first and then was planning to do the CommServe and Media Agents when my long-running jobs were complete.

CV support said that the rollout schedule should be CommServe, media agent, then clients.  Once I updated the CS and MAs everything worked fine.
,
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 1:02 PM, George Haddad <georgeh < at > msu.edu ([email]georgeh < at > msu.edu[/email])> wrote:
 
By design we implement schedules to Install Updates on our clients. But
we have always had to manually schedule and apply patches to the
Commserve and MAs to avoid problems with long-running jobs. Prior to v9
this was never an issue. But since sp3a started getting rolled out to
our clients, we cannot back them up. CV support is telling me that there
is an incompatibility between v9sp3 and v9sp3a which causes our jobs to
hang. They are being no more specific, but are saying that we will NOT
be able to back up until we can schedule an upgrade the Commserv to sp3a
or downgrade our clients to sp3. I've now suspended our scheduled client
patches, but I am left w/o functioning clients until we can get a
"change window" approved ... most likely over the weekend.

Why has Commvault introduced such a MAJOR incompatibility between such
minor revisions within a release. I expect more from an "enterprise"
product.









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__,_._,___

So let me get this straight... Your commserve is at a lower patch level than your clients and media agents? On Sep 13, 2011 4:03 AM, "George Haddad" <georgeh < at > msu.edu ([email]georgeh < at > msu.edu[/email])> wrote:> By design we implement schedules to Install Updates on our clients. But
we have always had to manually schedule and apply patches to the
Commserve and MAs to avoid problems with long-running jobs. Prior to v9
this was never an issue. But since sp3a started getting rolled out to
our clients, we cannot back them up. CV support is telling me that there
is an incompatibility between v9sp3 and v9sp3a which causes our jobs to
hang. They are being no more specific, but are saying that we will NOT
be able to back up until we can schedule an upgrade the Commserv to sp3a
or downgrade our clients to sp3. I've now suspended our scheduled client
patches, but I am left w/o functioning clients until we can get a
"change window" approved ... most likely over the weekend.

Why has Commvault introduced such a MAJOR incompatibility between such
minor revisions within a release. I expect more from an "enterprise"
product.


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__,_._,___

Ah I hit send way too quickly .. my bad.

I'm in agreement with Rod .. I stick to the stated supported patch levels from the vendor, both to stay in compliance with my support agreements but also as a level of protection as well because the roll back strategy is a lot easier for me - if new service pack breaks, I can roll back my CommServe and a handful of Media Agents, as opposed to hundreds of clients.

To be honest, every enterprise backup product I've seen always states that their 'master' and 'media' servers to be at same level or higher than the clients.  This especially is the case for stated support levels for both CommVault Simpana and Symantec NetBackup.

Additionally, I would be highly concerned if you are automatically rolling out updates without testing them on your systems first - most of the environments I operate with have stringent test conditions and change control that would get me fired without taking precautions first.
Luke
On 14/09/2011 7:27 AM, Rodney Smith wrote:  
Hi there one thing I've always recommended to customers is always upgrade the CommServe and media agents first, most patches are designed to work with the CommServe and MAs being on a higher revision then the clients (some customers even have older versions on the clients).

CommVault go to a bit of trouble to make patches work across the patching cycle but as new features get added to clients with patches this can sometimes change the way clients communicate with the other components, this is why you most likely have issues the CommServe/MA is receiving a command it doesn't recognise which is making in not work

best way is to upgrade CS and MAs first then do clients after these are complete; as schedules open you up to risk (a patch could break something ) it is always better to upgrade manually the CS,MAs and a few test clients first and after these have been tested completely schedule a roll-out to the other clients.

the copytocache utility allows you to 'seed' the update with extra updates that are not yet in the automatic updates to help you rollout to clients

hope this helps
rgds rod

On 13/09/2011 5:18 AM, George Haddad wrote:  
We've always rolled out in that order for major releases, but those are not pushed in the Automatic Updates, so we can completely control the ordering. I would never have suspected that a relatively minor update (sp3 to sp3a) would cause our clients to be unusable.

Colin Bogan wrote:  
I did the same thing.  I rolled out SP3a to the clients first and then was planning to do the CommServe and Media Agents when my long-running jobs were complete.

CV support said that the rollout schedule should be CommServe, media agent, then clients.  Once I updated the CS and MAs everything worked fine.
,
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 1:02 PM, George Haddad <georgeh < at > msu.edu ([email]georgeh < at > msu.edu[/email])> wrote:
 
By design we implement schedules to Install Updates on our clients. But
we have always had to manually schedule and apply patches to the
Commserve and MAs to avoid problems with long-running jobs. Prior to v9
this was never an issue. But since sp3a started getting rolled out to
our clients, we cannot back them up. CV support is telling me that there
is an incompatibility between v9sp3 and v9sp3a which causes our jobs to
hang. They are being no more specific, but are saying that we will NOT
be able to back up until we can schedule an upgrade the Commserv to sp3a
or downgrade our clients to sp3. I've now suspended our scheduled client
patches, but I am left w/o functioning clients until we can get a
"change window" approved ... most likely over the weekend.

Why has Commvault introduced such a MAJOR incompatibility between such
minor revisions within a release. I expect more from an "enterprise"
product.








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__,_._,___

That's incredibly common. I don't patch my commserve every day, but we do add clients every day, and the updater always uses the latest patch/sp in the cache for clients.

If commvault doesn't want us to have clients ahead of the cs/ma's, then they should make the updater stop at whatever patch level the cs/ma is at.

Luke <kaneda.san.sec < at > gmail.com> 9/13/2011 2:29 PM >>>


So let me get this straight... Your commserve is at a lower patch level than your clients and media agents? On Sep 13, 2011 4:03 AM, "George Haddad" <georgeh < at > msu.edu ([email]georgeh < at > msu.edu[/email])> wrote:> By design we implement schedules to Install Updates on our clients. But
we have always had to manually schedule and apply patches to the
Commserve and MAs to avoid problems with long-running jobs. Prior to v9
this was never an issue. But since sp3a started getting rolled out to
our clients, we cannot back them up. CV support is telling me that there
is an incompatibility between v9sp3 and v9sp3a which causes our jobs to
hang. They are being no more specific, but are saying that we will NOT
be able to back up until we can schedule an upgrade the Commserv to sp3a
or downgrade our clients to sp3. I've now suspended our scheduled client
patches, but I am left w/o functioning clients until we can get a
"change window" approved ... most likely over the weekend.

Why has Commvault introduced such a MAJOR incompatibility between such
minor revisions within a release. I expect more from an "enterprise"
product.

The problem is there are times where you do need to apply hotfixes/patches (but not service packs) to fix a problem quickly for a specific problem on a client so CV allow you to do this but Service Packs are a collection and that why its recommended to test it before doing a full rollout

While it may work best practise to update CS and MAs first and test the same way you would after applying a service pack to a production OS. Each customers enviroment is different so some may have no issues others may hence its good to go best practice where possible (know its not always possible thats where the testing can save you)

All SP come with a list showing what caveats and patches are included and these will a long read can help stop some issues too

hope this helps
rgds rod
On 14/09/2011 9:09 AM, Bill Willis wrote: That's incredibly common.  I don't patch my commserve every day, but we do add clients every day, and the updater always uses the latest patch/sp in the cache for clients.
 
If commvault doesn't want us to have clients ahead of the cs/ma's, then they should make the updater stop at whatever patch level the cs/ma is at.

Luke <kaneda.san.sec < at > gmail.com> ([email]kaneda.san.sec < at > gmail.com[/email]) 9/13/2011 2:29 PM >>>
 

So let me get this straight... Your commserve is at a lower patch level than your clients and media agents? On Sep 13, 2011 4:03 AM, "George Haddad" <georgeh < at > msu.edu ([email]georgeh < at > msu.edu[/email])> wrote: > By design we implement schedules to Install Updates on our clients. But
we have always had to manually schedule and apply patches to the
Commserve and MAs to avoid problems with long-running jobs. Prior to v9
this was never an issue. But since sp3a started getting rolled out to
our clients, we cannot back them up. CV support is telling me that there
is an incompatibility between v9sp3 and v9sp3a which causes our jobs to
hang. They are being no more specific, but are saying that we will NOT
be able to back up until we can schedule an upgrade the Commserv to sp3a
or downgrade our clients to sp3. I've now suspended our scheduled client
patches, but I am left w/o functioning clients until we can get a
"change window" approved ... most likely over the weekend.

Why has Commvault introduced such a MAJOR incompatibility between such
minor revisions within a release. I expect more from an "enterprise"
product.






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