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How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command?
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Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
I'm having an odd problem. I have a client that I recently upgraded to NW
client 8.0.2. Now, it seems that every Windows client I upgrade to NW 8.x
needs to have

save -a "ignore-all-missing-system-files=yes"

In the "backup command" entry in NMC, otherwise the ALL saveset fails with
"the system can not find the path specified". Tech Support recommended
this work-around, and it works fine. If I don't, then every Windows 2008
ALL backup with client 8.x fails. (the part that fails is either
DISASTER_RECOVERY: or one of the VSS savesets). And it's always a
different file - usually it's one of the .inf files, but not always. It's
always an error with the "shadow copy path".

Anyway, until I can figure out why every backup fails without that
setting, I have one client that is using the backup command "savepnpc".
(we need to run a script that stops specific services before backup and
then restarts them, upon completion. It's EMC's SourceOne mail archiving
system).

So how can I use both entries? I don't have another client that requires
a "savepnpc", so it's not easy for me to test; I can't use this production
system to test changes to the NW backup Smile. I don't see any save command
in my .res file - I only have a "precmd" and "postcmd" entry, that points
to the scripts that stop and start the services. There is no "save"
command listed in the .res file. And the Administratio Guide says:

The save command should not be specified in the group-name.res file. The
savepnpc
program will automatically invoke the save command and back up the save
sets
specified in the Save set attribute for the client.

But I need a specialized save command, with that option. So how can I have
both a savepnpc and the specialized save command?

Thanks for any clues.

--
Michael Leone
Network Administrator, ISM
Philadelphia Housing Authority
2500 Jackson St
Philadelphia, PA 19145
Tel: 215-684-4180
Cell: 215-252-0143
<mailto:michael.leone < at > pha.phila.gov>

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
I'm having an odd problem. I have a client that I recently upgraded to
NW
client 8.0.2. Now, it seems that every Windows client I upgrade to NW
8.x
needs to have

save -a "ignore-all-missing-system-files=yes"

In the "backup command" entry in NMC, otherwise the ALL saveset fails
with
"the system can not find the path specified". Tech Support recommended
this work-around, and it works fine. If I don't, then every Windows 2008

ALL backup with client 8.x fails. (the part that fails is either
DISASTER_RECOVERY: or one of the VSS savesets). And it's always a
different file - usually it's one of the .inf files, but not always.
It's
always an error with the "shadow copy path".

Anyway, until I can figure out why every backup fails without that
setting, I have one client that is using the backup command "savepnpc".
(we need to run a script that stops specific services before backup and
then restarts them, upon completion. It's EMC's SourceOne mail archiving

system).


type: savepnpc;
precmd: "C:\\PHA_Sc~1\\SuspendSourceOne.CMD";
pstcmd: "C:\\PHA_Sc~1\\ResumeSourceOne.CMD";
# timeout: "12:00:00";
abort precmd with group: No;

So how can I use both entries? I don't have another client that
requires
a "savepnpc", so it's not easy for me to test; I can't use this
production
system to test changes to the NW backup Smile. I don't see any save
command
in my .res file - I only have a "precmd" and "postcmd" entry, that
points
to the scripts that stop and start the services. There is no "save"
command listed in the .res file. And the Administratio Guide says:

The save command should not be specified in the group-name.res file. The

savepnpc
program will automatically invoke the save command and back up the save
sets
specified in the Save set attribute for the client.

But I need a specialized save command, with that option. So how can I
have
both a savepnpc and the specialized save command?


Do I need to create a new script, and use it to save, and not use the
"savepnpc"?
i.e.

"C:\\PHA_Sc~1\\SuspendSourceOne.CMD";
C:\Program~1\Legato\nsr\bin\save -a "ignore-all-missing-system-files=yes"
"C:\\PHA_Sc~1\\ResumeSourceOne.CMD";

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
The most obvious way would be to use 2 client resources like ...

the file backup client ...
Save Set: All-NTFS
Backup Command: savepnpc

the VSS backup client ...
Save Set: VSS....
Backup Command: save -a "ignore-all-missing-system-files=yes"

What do you think?

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Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
The most obvious way would be to use 2 client resources like ...

the file backup client ...
Save Set: All-NTFS
Backup Command: savepnpc

the VSS backup client ...
Save Set: VSS....
Backup Command: save -a "ignore-all-missing-system-files=yes"

What do you think?

I'm not certain that would help, although it is quite ingenious. I need to
be able to do a BMR recovery of this server, and - since it's Win 2008 R2
- that means I need to do a DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset. So, checking what
drives are needed for that:

DISKSHADOW /L DiskShadow.LOG

Then

LIST WRITERS
EXIT

In the log file, look for

Volumes affected by this component:

-- this tells you what drives are necessary for a BMR. (I learned that
empirically, from this list)

There are a number of WRITERs, so there are a number of that "Volumes
affected" line. Look at all of them. In my case, one of the ASR (Automatic
System Recovery) writers is also listing all the other drives (the
database drive, the log drive, etc). So I don't know if it will try and
back all them up ....

I also don't know if you can properly do a BMR recovery of a Win 2008 R2
server if you don't explicitly list the DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset (or
ALL, which includes it). I suspect not ...

I'll see if I can try it tonight ...

Thanks!

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
There are a number of WRITERs, so there are a number of that "Volumes
affected" line. Look at all of them. In my case, one of the ASR
(Automatic
System Recovery) writers is also listing all the other drives (the
database drive, the log drive, etc). So I don't know if it will try and
back all them up ....

I also don't know if you can properly do a BMR recovery of a Win 2008 R2

server if you don't explicitly list the DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset (or
ALL, which includes it). I suspect not ...

I'll see if I can try it tonight ...

Apparently not. Here is a DISASTER_RECOVERY: only job I happened to run on
that server a few weeks ago:

* SERVER01:DISASTER_RECOVERY:\ 77775:savepnpc: Processing completed for
disaster recover backup.
SERVER01: OSSR_C level=full, 47 GB 02:51:25 199622
files
* SERVER01:DISASTER_RECOVERY:\ completed savetime=1372468439
* SERVER01:DISASTER_RECOVERY:\ 80889:savepnpc: Created disaster recover
logical object.
SERVER01: DISASTER_RECOVERY:\ level=full, 24 KB 02:51:28 4
files
* SERVER01:DISASTER_RECOVERY:\ completed savetime=1372468456
SERVER01: I:\ level=full, 95 GB 00:25:02 5026
files
* SERVER01:I:\ completed savetime=1372468580
SERVER01: H:\ level=full, 32 GB 00:28:04 11689
files
* SERVER01:H:\ completed savetime=1372468840
SERVER01: G:\ level=full, 875 MB 00:01:07 1655
files
* SERVER01:G:\ completed savetime=1372468845
SERVER01: F:\ level=full, 427 MB 00:01:10 8820
files
* SERVER01:F:\ completed savetime=1372477119
SERVER01: C:\ level=full, 33 GB 00:19:23 86757
files
* SERVER01:C:\ completed savetime=1372475588

So, just like my Lotus server, I can't do an ALL backup without
duplicating drives. And (in this case) doing just DISASTER_RECOVERY: in
one client definition, with the fix for missing system files, would
attempt to back up the all the drives without shutting down the SourceOne
services first, which is "bad".

Looks like I'm being backed into a corner, and have to not use "savepnpc"
but my own customized "save" script - which will have to call the same
pre- and post- commands that the savepnpc does.

And I can only even try this at night, which means I have to monitor it
from home. Because if it doesn't work, I will have to fall back on the
current method, which will at least backup the data files.

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
AH HA! In this one particular case, the failure is on a copy of the file
pds.exe:

* DISASTER_RECOVERY:\ System Writer - Get file attributes returned error 3
for VSS file
\\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCopy6\windows\system32\cba\pds.exe
* DISASTER_RECOVERY:\ System Writer - Error saving file path
C:\windows\system32\cba\pds.exe that is associated with Shadow Copy path
\\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCopy6\windows\system32\cba\pds.exe.
The system cannot find the path specified.

Turns out, this is a (sort of) known issue with this file, due to this
being a 64bit OS ..

http://community.landesk.com/support/docs/DOC-9772

Cause: The pds.exe is stored in C:\Windows\SysWOW64\cba\pds.exe instead of
c:\windows\system32\cba\pds.exe on 64bit machines.

It is pretty much the same as having Program Files (for 64 bit programs)
and Program Files (x86) (for 32 bit programs). It is designed to be
invisible to the service, which is why it thinks it's in a different place
than it really is.

This is working how Windows intends for a 32 bit service to work.

Resolution: You can make a link to the "c:\Windows\SysWOW64\cba"

C:\Windows\System32>mklink /d cba c:\Windows\SysWOW64\cba

So the fix (HOPEFULLY!) is to make a symbolic link to that 64bit directory
(that's the "/d" option on the "mklink" command).

We'll see how that works tonight. If that's the only file that it
complains about being "missing", this should fix it. However, if it
complains about missing .INF files (I've seen that, too, in backups of NW
8.x client), then it's back to the drawing board ...

Fingers crossed!

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
Michael,

It appears that savepnpc also will parse the -a argument... so, I'd suggest you try:

savepnpc -a "ignore-all-missing-system-files=yes"

as your backup command. EMC should be able to tell you whether that will work or not...

-Frank


On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:28 AM, Michael Leone <Michael.Leone < at > PHA.PHILA.GOV> wrote:

But I need a specialized save command, with that option. So how can I have
both a savepnpc and the specialized save command?

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
I am still convinced that my 2-client resource solution will work.
However, there are some restrictions to follow:

1. Of course you will need the save set "DISASTER RECOVERY:\".
I did not mention this earlier because it was obvious to me when i am talking about 'the VSS Save Sets'.

2. When you select DR save set, NW will remind you that it must have the system drive as well.
In fact it is talking about 'All critical volumes' which means nothing else but all drives where an EXE runs/is registered as a service.
This is usually the C:\ drive but might apply to others as well.
As long as such does not exist, my solution should be fine.

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Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
1. Of course you will need the save set "DISASTER RECOVERY:\".
I did not mention this earlier because it was obvious to me when
i am talking about 'the VSS Save Sets'.

As I pointed out, the DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset includes all drives for
this server. So you get duplicate backups, if you use the 2 client
definitions you suggest. (and probably errors in one of them, as the
SourceOne services will have files open while one of those backups is
going on)

2. When you select DR save set, NW will remind you that it must have
the system drive as well.
In fact it is talking about 'All critical volumes' which means
nothing else but all drives where an EXE runs/is registered as a
service.

Examine my other email, where I posted the results of a backup of saveset
DISASTER_RECOVERY: only. It listed all drives in the server. Including
drives that only have databases and data files on them. There are no EXEs
or services running from those drives, but they are backed up by the
DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset, because they are listed as "critical system
drives".

This is usually the C:\ drive but might apply to others as well.
As long as such does not exist, my solution should be fine.

As I posted, ALL drives are listed as system critical (the same as my
Lotus Notes server does).

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
"As I pointed out, the DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset includes all drives for this server. So you get duplicate backups, if you use the 2 client definitions you suggest."

That was correct but it depends on your OS/NW combination.
At least with W2K8 & NW 8.0.1.1 this is not true any longer. The DR save set is just some KB in size.

Please have a look at the example for one of our SAP (SQL) servers - of course i know that the VSS 'volume' should also be backed up.
The DB files are spread across a lot of volumes but only the one with SAP services is listed in addition to C:\ .



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Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
"As I pointed out, the DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset includes all
drives for this server. So you get duplicate backups, if you use the
2 client definitions you suggest."

That was correct but it depends on your OS/NW combination.
At least with W2K8 & NW 8.0.1.1 this is not true any longer. The DR
save set is just some KB in size.

That one saveset, labeled DISASTER_RECOVERY:, is very small, however since
it *also* backups up all the "system critical volumes", in reality, if you
submit a backup job using only the saveset DISASTER_RECOVERY:, it is much
larger than just a few KB in size.

Please have a look at the example for one of our SAP (SQL) servers -
of course i know that the VSS 'volume' should also be backed up.
The DB files are spread across a lot of volumes but only the one
with SAP services is listed in addition to C:\ .

As I have said, the DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset pulls in other volumes as
well (or can). So saying it;s only a few KB in size is misleading. I have
2 servers where issuing a backup job that includes only saveset
DISASTER_RECOVERY results in jobs over 700G in size.

In your example, the DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset would be all of drive C:
and all of drive H:. That is certainly more than a few KB.

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
Please have a look at the example for one of our SAP (SQL) servers -
of course i know that the VSS 'volume' should also be backed up.
The DB files are spread across a lot of volumes but only the one
with SAP services is listed in addition to C:\ .

(http://postimg.org/image/pmtc58fs7/)

I am curious. If you don't choose the VSS volume, and the 2 volumes
suggested - C: and H: - how can the DR saveset actually work, if you go to
do an actual disaster recovery of this client? I don't see how you can get
a function disaster recovery restore without choosing all the VSS volume,
and C: and H:.

And if not, then *effectively* the DR saveset is the sum total size of all
those volumes (since the recovered client won't work properly without
them)

If you just type DISASTER_RECOVERY: in the saveset definition in your
example (i.e., don't go choosing volumes, since that wouldn't give you a
backup that you can use as a source for a DR recovery), you will get C:,
H:, and the other volumes. How many gig is that?

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
Let us be careful with the terminology and the DR.

Of course, if you want a working system, you must get everything back - no doubt.
The DR contains just everything to do a BMR and get NW to a point to proceed from here for the final/residual restore processes.

Maybe it becomes clearer if you look at our SS list. It looks a bit weird because we actually skip D:\ E:\ & F:\ using a directive.



I have just copied the client, defined the save set DISASTER RECOVERY:\ and ran "savegrp -nv -l full -<group>".
As a result, NW would actually only backup the DR 'save set' - nothing else. So NW will in fact accept this special save set independently.
The reason for that IMHO is that the DR save set is not just a save set - it follows a specifc procedure, like the bootstrap.

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Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
Let us be careful with the terminology and the DR.

Of course, if you want a working system, you must get everything
back - no doubt.

I am curious why you would *not* want a working system, if you are
including the DR saveset. Why include it, if you don't want a working
system?

The DR contains just everything to do a BMR and get NW to a point to
proceed from here for the final/residual restore processes.

Yes, but: I submit that a "working" DR-recovered system that does not
include all the "system critical" volumes is not a "working" system. If
you are including the DR saveset, it is because you want/need to be able
to do a DR recover (using the DR method, the bootable ISO image). If you
don't have all the system critical volumes, then the system - while it may
boot - is not truly "working".

It's a bit like saying "The operation was a success, but the patient
died". Smile

Like you, and Tim, I have systems where the DR procedure is to rebuild the
OS from scratch; install the application; configure it; restore the data
folders/drives. In these such cases, there is no real need for a DR
saveset backup, as you're not doing the special sequence of commands that
the DR backup was created to support.

But if you do want to do a DR recover (or BMR - Bare Metal Recovery), you
need the DR saveset .. *and* everything that special saveset thinks is
required (all system critical drives). And as we have seen, effectively
that is more than just a few KB. The DR saveset is kinda useless without
all of what it thinks are the system critical volumes, don't you think?
The system you have just recovered using the DR backup won't work the same
as the system it was backed up on, if it doesn't also have it's system
critical volumes.

Now, it may be possible that NW is smart enough to fully do a working BMR
from a backup that was only the DR saveset, and another backup that was
all other drives. In other words, from 2 client definitions, as we
discussed.

Me, I have no intention of finding out I am wrong, and it won't result in
a fully working system, during a DR scenario. Smile And I don't really have
a lot of free time, to play around with it and find out.

Post How to use savepnpc with a backup "set" command? 
On 07/25/2013 05:05 PM, bingo wrote:
"As I pointed out, the DISASTER_RECOVERY: saveset includes all drives for this server. So you get duplicate backups, if you use the 2 client definitions you suggest."

That was correct but it depends on your OS/NW combination.
At least with W2K8 & NW 8.0.1.1 this is not true any longer. The DR save set is just some KB in size.

Please have a look at the example for one of our SAP (SQL) servers - of course i know that the VSS 'volume' should also be backed up.
The DB files are spread across a lot of volumes but only the one with SAP services is listed in addition to C:\ .

Earlier version 7.x take DR all drives where Windows services start
automaric at startup pointed. If you installed service which exe were
d:, then DR copied C: and D: drives.
NW 8.x made DR only with drive C:

Strategy with DR recovery is install basic os and nw-client. Then you
install programs from media and recover data from backups.

Regards, Riku


(http://postimg.org/image/pmtc58fs7/)

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