Backup Central

Hi,

I have a NAS server and a Laptop I like to backup. Yesterday I played a
bit with it, so far so good. Some question though:

A problem is that the Laptop is not always available via the network.
What is better, to start rsnapshot from the server and backup the laptop
to the server from there (as I have now), or vice versa? Is rsnapshot
running on both systems when backing up? How easily does rsnapshot
recover a interrupted backup (automatically)?
Is it possible to have multiple configuration files to backup different
folders with different time settings?

Thanks in advance,
Dirk

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Hi Dirk,

rsnapshot can only backs up to a "local" directory. This can be an NFS mount, but nfs is much slower than letting rsnapshot backup from a remote system (without using NFS) as you are at present. To ensure the server only attempts to backup when my laptop is on I use ssh (from my laptop) to run a script on the server which does the backup. So rsnapshot is run on the server, which is definitely the best way to run it.

Regards,
Peter

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:35:48 PM ~D wrote:
Hi,

I have a NAS server and a Laptop I like to backup. Yesterday I played a
bit with it, so far so good. Some question though:

A problem is that the Laptop is not always available via the network.
What is better, to start rsnapshot from the server and backup the laptop
to the server from there (as I have now), or vice versa? Is rsnapshot
running on both systems when backing up? How easily does rsnapshot
recover a interrupted backup (automatically)?
Is it possible to have multiple configuration files to backup different
folders with different time settings?

Thanks in advance,
Dirk

Be sure to use the "sync_first 1" option. Otherwise you might eventually rotate all of your backups into non-existence (and then you'll have no backup).

I still think the "sync_first" option should be removed and hard-coded to 1.

More details about the dangers of sync_first are here:

http://derek.simkowiak.net/backing-up-multiple-servers-with-rsnapshot/


Thanks,
Derek

On 12/30/2011 01:53 PM, Peter Barker wrote: p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
Hi Dirk,

rsnapshot can only backs up to a "local" directory. This can be an NFS mount, but nfs is much slower than letting rsnapshot backup from a remote system (without using NFS) as you are at present. To ensure the server only attempts to backup when my laptop is on I use ssh (from my laptop) to run a script on the server which does the backup. So rsnapshot is run on the server, which is definitely the best way to run it.

Regards,
Peter

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:35:48 PM ~D wrote:
Hi,

I have a NAS server and a Laptop I like to backup. Yesterday I played a
bit with it, so far so good. Some question though:

A problem is that the Laptop is not always available via the network.
What is better, to start rsnapshot from the server and backup the laptop
to the server from there (as I have now), or vice versa? Is rsnapshot
running on both systems when backing up? How easily does rsnapshot
recover a interrupted backup (automatically)?
Is it possible to have multiple configuration files to backup different
folders with different time settings?

Thanks in advance,
Dirk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to
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costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox

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Hallo, Derek,

Du meintest am 30.12.11:

Be sure to use the "sync_first 1" option. Otherwise you might
eventually rotate all of your backups into non-existence (and then
you'll have no backup).

"That depends" ...

I still think the "sync_first" option should be removed and
hard-coded to 1.

No - I don't like this proposal. At least "sync_first 1" seems to make
backups slower. And in my installations (many installations) I don't
need this option.

Backing up clients which are not always connected is a very special
problem.

Viele Gruesse!
Helmut

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Accidentally sent this just to Helmut, reposting it to the list as well.


On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Helmut Hullen <Hullen < at > t-online.de> wrote:
Hallo, Derek,

Du meintest am 30.12.11:

     Be sure to use the "sync_first 1" option.  Otherwise you might
eventually rotate all of your backups into non-existence (and then
you'll have no backup).

"That depends" ...

     I still think the "sync_first" option should be removed and
hard-coded to 1.

No - I don't like this proposal. At least "sync_first 1" seems to make
backups slower. And in my installations (many installations) I don't
need this option.

Backing up clients which are not always connected is a very special
problem.

May I delicately suggest that it is, in fact, a quite common problem?
Remotely connected hosts requiring reliable VPN, machines which are
taken down for maintenance, or machines that are decommissioned but
should have an archival copy of the last few backups for reference are
all very awkward if the backups have rotated away before you realize
what's happened. It's particularly bad if that last backup before
disconnection has vital and recently changed files: relying on the
weekly or monthly backup is not going to suffice if you're trying to
review a machine that was broken into, or someone's last work before
they left the company.

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Hallo, Nico,

Du meintest am 31.12.11:

[...]

Backing up clients which are not always connected is a very special
problem.

May I delicately suggest that it is, in fact, a quite common problem?
Remotely connected hosts requiring reliable VPN, machines which are
taken down for maintenance, or machines that are decommissioned but
should have an archival copy of the last few backups for reference
are all very awkward if the backups have rotated away before you
realize what's happened. It's particularly bad if that last backup
before disconnection has vital and recently changed files: relying on
the weekly or monthly backup is not going to suffice if you're trying
to review a machine that was broken into, or someone's last work
before they left the company.

Yes - I know these problems. And I know that there is no solution which
helps in every problematic situation. I only have the choice between
Scylla and Charybdis.

I have to live with a workable compromise.

Viele Gruesse!
Helmut

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On 12/30/2011 10:53 PM, Peter Barker wrote:
Hi Dirk,

rsnapshot can only backs up to a "local" directory. This can be an NFS
mount, but nfs is much slower than letting rsnapshot backup from a
remote system (without using NFS) as you are at present. To ensure the
server only attempts to backup when my laptop is on I use ssh (from my
laptop) to run a script on the server which does the backup. So
rsnapshot is run on the server, which is definitely the best way to run it.

Ok, but that means it's not possible to detect whether rsnapshot is
running on the Desktop/Laptop, before shutdown (to prevent interruption
of the backup).

yep I do use ssh. I took a look at these howtos
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2009/09/linux-remote-backup-using-rsnapshot-rsync-utility/

http://marksallee.wordpress.com/2009/10/08/server-backups-with-rsnapshot-rsync-non-root-user/

http://alien.slackbook.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=linux:rsnapshot


Dirk

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On 12/31/2011 12:43 AM, Derek Simkowiak wrote:
Be sure to use the "sync_first 1" option. Otherwise you might eventually
rotate all of your backups into non-existence (and then you'll have no
backup).

I still think the "sync_first" option should be removed and hard-coded to 1.

More details about the dangers of sync_first are here:

http://derek.simkowiak.net/backing-up-multiple-servers-with-rsnapshot/

Ok, tried that option, but it didn't looked like there was a backup of
the specified files. When disabling that function it did seem to work ok
again ... hmm



Thanks,
Derek

On 12/30/2011 01:53 PM, Peter Barker wrote:

Hi Dirk,

rsnapshot can only backs up to a "local" directory. This can be an NFS
mount, but nfs is much slower than letting rsnapshot backup from a
remote system (without using NFS) as you are at present. To ensure the
server only attempts to backup when my laptop is on I use ssh (from my
laptop) to run a script on the server which does the backup. So
rsnapshot is run on the server, which is definitely the best way to
run it.

Regards,

Peter

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:35:48 PM ~D wrote:

Hi,


I have a NAS server and a Laptop I like to backup. Yesterday I played a

bit with it, so far so good. Some question though:


A problem is that the Laptop is not always available via the network.

What is better, to start rsnapshot from the server and backup the laptop

to the server from there (as I have now), or vice versa? Is rsnapshot

running on both systems when backing up? How easily does rsnapshot

recover a interrupted backup (automatically)?

Is it possible to have multiple configuration files to backup different

folders with different time settings?


Thanks in advance,

Dirk


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex
infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to
virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual
desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure
costs. Try it free!http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox


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Another question, is it possible to remove a file from a backup or even
a whole folder (like hourly.x?)

On 12/31/2011 07:19 PM, ~D wrote:
On 12/31/2011 12:43 AM, Derek Simkowiak wrote:
Be sure to use the "sync_first 1" option. Otherwise you might eventually
rotate all of your backups into non-existence (and then you'll have no
backup).

I still think the "sync_first" option should be removed and hard-coded
to 1.

More details about the dangers of sync_first are here:

http://derek.simkowiak.net/backing-up-multiple-servers-with-rsnapshot/

Ok, tried that option, but it didn't looked like there was a backup of
the specified files. When disabling that function it did seem to work ok
again ... hmm



Thanks,
Derek

On 12/30/2011 01:53 PM, Peter Barker wrote:

Hi Dirk,

rsnapshot can only backs up to a "local" directory. This can be an NFS
mount, but nfs is much slower than letting rsnapshot backup from a
remote system (without using NFS) as you are at present. To ensure the
server only attempts to backup when my laptop is on I use ssh (from my
laptop) to run a script on the server which does the backup. So
rsnapshot is run on the server, which is definitely the best way to
run it.

Regards,

Peter

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:35:48 PM ~D wrote:

Hi,


I have a NAS server and a Laptop I like to backup. Yesterday I
played a

bit with it, so far so good. Some question though:


A problem is that the Laptop is not always available via the network.

What is better, to start rsnapshot from the server and backup the
laptop

to the server from there (as I have now), or vice versa? Is rsnapshot

running on both systems when backing up? How easily does rsnapshot

recover a interrupted backup (automatically)?

Is it possible to have multiple configuration files to backup
different

folders with different time settings?


Thanks in advance,

Dirk


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a
complex
infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure
access to
virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual
desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI
infrastructure
costs. Try it free!http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox


_______________________________________________
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rsnapshot-discuss



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On 12/31/2011 07:19 PM, ~D wrote:
On 12/31/2011 12:43 AM, Derek Simkowiak wrote:
Be sure to use the "sync_first 1" option. Otherwise you might eventually
rotate all of your backups into non-existence (and then you'll have no
backup).

I still think the "sync_first" option should be removed and hard-coded
to 1.

More details about the dangers of sync_first are here:

http://derek.simkowiak.net/backing-up-multiple-servers-with-rsnapshot/

Ok, tried that option, but it didn't looked like there was a backup of
the specified files. When disabling that function it did seem to work ok
again ... hmm

Or do I have to take more steps to enable this option? When I have
sync_first set to 1, I get:

$ rsnapshot -v hourly
echo 28155 > /home/user/rsnapshot/rsnapshot.pid
rm -f /home/user/rsnapshot/rsnapshot.pid

e.g no backup

when commented out:


$ rsnapshot -v hourly
echo 28185 > /home/user/rsnapshot/rsnapshot.pid
mkdir -m 0755 -p /home/user/rsnapshot/hourly.0/
/usr/bin/rsync -a --rsync-path=rsync_wrapper.sh --delete --numeric-ids \
--relative --delete-excluded --rsh=/usr/bin/ssh \
user < at > 192.168.1.xxx:/home/user1/documenten \
/home/upuser/rsnapshot/hourly.0/docs/
touch /home/user/rsnapshot/hourly.0/
rm -f /home/user/rsnapshot/rsnapshot.pid


there is a backup




Thanks,
Derek

On 12/30/2011 01:53 PM, Peter Barker wrote:

Hi Dirk,

rsnapshot can only backs up to a "local" directory. This can be an NFS
mount, but nfs is much slower than letting rsnapshot backup from a
remote system (without using NFS) as you are at present. To ensure the
server only attempts to backup when my laptop is on I use ssh (from my
laptop) to run a script on the server which does the backup. So
rsnapshot is run on the server, which is definitely the best way to
run it.

Regards,

Peter

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:35:48 PM ~D wrote:

Hi,


I have a NAS server and a Laptop I like to backup. Yesterday I
played a

bit with it, so far so good. Some question though:


A problem is that the Laptop is not always available via the network.

What is better, to start rsnapshot from the server and backup the
laptop

to the server from there (as I have now), or vice versa? Is rsnapshot

running on both systems when backing up? How easily does rsnapshot

recover a interrupted backup (automatically)?

Is it possible to have multiple configuration files to backup
different

folders with different time settings?


Thanks in advance,

Dirk


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a
complex
infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure
access to
virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual
desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI
infrastructure
costs. Try it free!http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox


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Hallo, ~D,

Du meintest am 31.12.11:

Another question, is it possible to remove a file from a backup or
even a whole folder (like hourly.x?)

[Fullquote deleted]

Surely it is!
If the files of this special backup are hard linked then the link count
is decreased.
If there is a file which is unique then it's lost.

Viele Gruesse!
Helmut

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On 12/31/2011 07:54 PM, Helmut Hullen wrote:
Hallo, ~D,

Du meintest am 31.12.11:

Another question, is it possible to remove a file from a backup or
even a whole folder (like hourly.x?)

[Fullquote deleted]

Surely it is!
If the files of this special backup are hard linked then the link count
is decreased.
If there is a file which is unique then it's lost.

Ok, thanks. With rdiff-backup this is not possible afaik.

Hmm then I'd like to solve that sync_first issue now...

REgards,
Dirk

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> Hmm then I'd like to solve that sync_first issue now...
When using sync_first, you must first run "rsnapshot sync" and, if that succeeds, then run "rsnapshot hourly". This is usually put directly into the crontab as

00 * * * * rsnapshot sync && rsnapshot hourly You can do this manually at a command prompt by running

rsnapshot sync && rsnapshot hourly

The dual ampersands ("&&") are a shell construct that means: if the first command works, then also run the second command. It would be simpler if sync_first was always set to "1" and rsnapshot had its only "&&" logic built into it. However, the above use of "&&" with sync_first is well documented (including on the link below).

Replace "hourly" with your smallest time periods, i.e. "daily" if you only run daily backups. If you are not using /etc/rsnapshot.conf then also supply a "-c my_conf_file.conf" option to both of the commands (as per the example at):

http://derek.simkowiak.net/backing-up-multiple-servers-with-rsnapshot/


Thanks,
Derek Simkowiak

On 12/31/2011 11:56 AM, ~D wrote: On 12/31/2011 07:54 PM, Helmut Hullen wrote:
Hallo, ~D,

Du meintest am 31.12.11:

Another question, is it possible to remove a file from a backup or
even a whole folder (like hourly.x?)

[Fullquote deleted]

Surely it is!
If the files of this special backup are hard linked then the link count
is decreased.
If there is a file which is unique then it's lost.

Ok, thanks. With rdiff-backup this is not possible afaik.

Hmm then I'd like to solve that sync_first issue now...

REgards,
Dirk

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On 12/31/2011 10:12 PM, Derek Simkowiak wrote:
rsnapshot sync&& rsnapshot hourly

Great, thx that works!

Afaik the pid file makes sure there are no two instances of rsnapshot
running right?

I was using rdiff-backup before, and someone helped me with a script
which detected whether it had connection with the laptop, when it was
not the case it didn't run the backup. Somehow I need to figure out how
to set this up for rsnapshot I guess.


#!/bin/bash

LOCKFILE='/tmp/rdiff-backup.lock'

if [ -f $LOCKFILE ] ; then
echo 'Rdiff-backup is already running' 1>&2
exit 1
else
if [ -z "$(/usr/bin/rdiff-backup --test-server
server1_backup::/ignored | grep 'Server OK')" ] ; then
echo "The machine you want to backup, is not available via the
network, please fix this. Aborting backup now." 1>&2
else
touch $LOCKFILE
/usr/bin/rdiff-backup --exclude /home/derick/Downloads --exclude \
/home/derick/mount --exclude /home/derick/voetbalx
--exclude /home/derick/linux_dev/debpackagebuild --exclude
/home/derick/VirtualBoxShare \
--exclude /home/derick/Vbox_backup --exclude
/home/derick/openstudiopro/opensusebuildservice --exclude
/home/derick/linux_dev --include /home --include /etc \
--exclude '**' server1_backup::/ /home/backup/backup_laptop3
rm -f $LOCKFILE
fi
fi



Your setup of doing multiple kind of backups with different config
files, I'll take a look at it, thx.

Dirk

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> At least "sync_first 1" seems to make backups slower.
It doesn't. Whether you sync and then rotate, or rotate and then sync, there is only one run of rsync using your most recent snapshot. The actual network transfer is unchanged.

The drawback of sync_first is that it uses a whole extra snapshot under .../.sync. So it costs you some extra hard links on the filesystem. With disk space at ~$35/TB, you might save a couple dollars worth of disk space by not using sync_first.

The disadvantage, however, is that it makes the backup system extremely fragile, to the point that you may lose all your backups.

> And in my installations (many installations) I don't need this option. Backing up clients which are not always connected is a very special problem.
I respectfully disagree. Clients which are "not always connected" is just one case, but not the only one. If your backup fails for any reason, then without sync_first you lose the oldest snaphot at every scheduled run.

The "for any reason" could be anything. Stuff I have actually seen in the real world:

- Bad network cable or failing router
- NFS server exports changed
- Bad network route
- DNS and/or firewall misconfigured
- A space instead of a tab in the rsnapshot.conf
- A user turned on a competing DHCP server, causing an IP address conflict with the backup server
- An automatic security update invalidated the SSH key
- VPN problem
- The ISP changed the "static" IP address without warning
- The server IP address changed, causing SSH to reject it due to .ssh/known_hosts

Imagine you set up a 4-week backup history, with rotations of hourly, daily, and weekly. You test it and it's working fine. Then, after you've tested the system, it somehow breaks (for any reason). What happens? With sync_first=0, four weeks later, you have no backup. They've all been rotated out of existence.

So you come back the next month, 31 days later, and discover you have no backup... and there's an email in your Inbox from the CEO telling you he just deleted an important file on accident and needs it back.

"The good news, sir, is that our backup system is optimized to save you $3 worth of unnecessary hard links. The bad news, is um... we have no backup."

In my opinion, sync_first makes Rsnapshot unreliable, fragile, and even dangerous. That kind of fragility has no place in a backup system.

--Derek

On 12/30/2011 10:57 PM, Helmut Hullen wrote: Hallo, Derek,

Du meintest am 30.12.11:

Be sure to use the "sync_first 1" option. Otherwise you might
eventually rotate all of your backups into non-existence (and then
you'll have no backup).

"That depends" ...

I still think the "sync_first" option should be removed and
hard-coded to 1.

No - I don't like this proposal. At least "sync_first 1" seems to make
backups slower. And in my installations (many installations) I don't
need this option.

Backing up clients which are not always connected is a very special
problem.

Viele Gruesse!
Helmut

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